josef k
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Not at all. DonÂ’t know Miller in the slightest.
I guess what’s bothered me is that a lot of it is tied up with a specific time when we all got to know each other, that actually meant quite a lot to me and I don’t want it all to turn into dead people and dodgy politics. Not that it’s going to, because we’re still here, and as stupid/smart/annoying/decent as ever. I guess it’s all coming from a place of sentimentality, but it feels important.
One of the things we (MF/IT blog circle and extended ecosystem) used to do a lot was launch wounding personal attacks in the guise of hifalutin theoretical analyses of abstract subjective formations - "grey vampires" et al. It kept the juices flowing in some ways, but they were perhaps not the healthiest energies to be putting into circulation.
I am mostly just trying to think aloud and sharpen some arguments here, but cannot wholly disclaim devious machinations. One always has something of the sort in play.
I am mostly just trying to think aloud and sharpen some arguments here, but cannot wholly disclaim devious machinations. One always has something of the sort in play.
I guess the reason I did not post here much earlier, which I was outed about - so this is your fault, Luka - is because all this is quite raw and feels weird. But, as per above, it has been useful. A space for thinking aloud is a really good thing.
For ages, I have spent a lot of time surrounded by people with broadly similar views, in my friend circle, or people who I can just get along with regardless, on a more surface level, and not worry about too much in my broader life.
The world has changed a lot in the past few years and questions of what you are willing to tolerate and what you need to stand up against and the best ways to do the latter have become really important.
As a rule, I have been very comfortable being very absolutist about saying that people should be ostracised, publicly exposed and held to account for not being on what I believe is the right side, but that is largely because, although very real, that view has been applied to people who are very distant from me.
This has thrown up all sorts of questions about how you deal with it in the context of people you find yourself really not wanting to do that to.
I have realised pretty rapidly that, up to a point, I am willing to keep talking, disagree, and cross my fingers that that might result in a better outcome.
(I am writing without apostrophes because that appears to keep going wrong, using an iPad.)
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IdleRich
IdleRich
Apostrophes are important.
luka
Well-known member
Talk about anything. Just feels a bit ghoulish when I can see everyone just waiting like vultures for something to happen not playing nicely with the lads no interest in the unified field theory of tresillo. Just feel like it's latent energy that should be put to use. It's a good reservoir. Lot of good human potential being squandered like when you see a man employed to stand all day on a street corner holding a big sign saying golf sale on it. Do you know what I mean?
A thing about who is and who isn't "a fascist", etc
Something I remember talking with Nina about a long while back was the whole transitivity-of-contagion thing that was going on around the #boycottnovara blowup with the term "rape apologist", which was being applied liberally not only to people like George Galloway who directly said gross things that minimised rape and sexual violence, but also to anyone who (as Aaron Bastani did) then appeared on a public platform with Galloway, and so by extension to anybody involved with anything Bastani was involved with, and so on. This struck me as dangerous: people who had neither committed sexual violence, nor said anything themselves that minimised the seriousness of sexual violence, were effectively being attacked for being rape apologist apologist apologists. (I did think that Bastani shouldn't have appeared with Galloway, for that and a number of other reasons, but I thought that was an error of judgement and should have been criticised as such).
The immediate trigger for #boycottnovara was, as I recall, Novara publishing a piece by Jacob Bard-Rosenberg, who had been part of a group which some years previously had made a very presumptuous and poorly-judged intervention with respect to a sexual assault and the ensuing attempt to hold the perpetrator to account. The piece Novara had published had had nothing to do with these matters, and JBR was not himself accused of assaulting anyone, but the level of unresolved ill-feeling and trauma within those circles was such that merely to accredit his existence in public in this way was enough to re-ignite the whole thing. The resulting situation was extraordinarily ugly and stupid, and everyone who played a part in escalating it ought in my view to be ashamed of themselves.
So to fascism, and to fascist-sympathisers, and fascist-sympathiser-sympathisers, and so on. My honest opinion of Miller is that he's a self-promoting clown who's latched onto the controversialism of certain art-world dickheads with respect to the alt-right - Deanna Havas and so on - for largely opportunistic reasons. How far up his own arse he's really gone with all the esoteric Evola-inspired codshit he comes out with I can't really say. He's not the sort of person of whom it's generally meaningful to ask whether they're sincere or not. The only principle he consistently holds, it seems to me, is that he, Daniel "only God can judge me" Miller, is transcendentally innocent of all wrongdoing by definition, and anyone who has a problem with his behaviour is just some "nobody" who's projecting their ressentiment onto him. Maverick types like him are not uncommon in fascist circles, but they're mainly in it for the narcissistic supply. He'll move on in due course, and it will all have been a magnificent prank or whatever.
As for Nina, I'm reasonably sure she's not "a fascist", or really a "fascist sympathiser" in any meaningful sense, but rather someone who's behaving very stupidly and irresponsibly around someone who's behaving very stupidly and irresponsibly. Some of the things she's come out with are well dodgy, or sound well dodgy in the context of their being said around dodgy characters like Miller in front of an audience peppered with a sizeable contingent of alt-right trolls, but there's no solid evidence that she's committed to anything really resembling a fascist political programme. Maybe that's where she'll end up, but I find it hard to imagine. So, I think she's chosen to shit on certain basic principles that her former friends hold to be extremely important (like "don't publicly defend malignant imbeciles who put it about that all antifascists are delusional zealots acting out on their unacknowledged sadism and ressentiment" and "don't appear on public platforms with people whose art praxis includes exhibiting gross anti-semitic caricatures"), and I think there's a sort of fundamental bad faith involved in making that choice and then being outraged when people are angry with you for it, and start whispering about you, then yelling at you, then organising to stop you. But I think Stelfox has it basically right: this is all about trying to get out of an untenable position.
Something I remember talking with Nina about a long while back was the whole transitivity-of-contagion thing that was going on around the #boycottnovara blowup with the term "rape apologist", which was being applied liberally not only to people like George Galloway who directly said gross things that minimised rape and sexual violence, but also to anyone who (as Aaron Bastani did) then appeared on a public platform with Galloway, and so by extension to anybody involved with anything Bastani was involved with, and so on. This struck me as dangerous: people who had neither committed sexual violence, nor said anything themselves that minimised the seriousness of sexual violence, were effectively being attacked for being rape apologist apologist apologists. (I did think that Bastani shouldn't have appeared with Galloway, for that and a number of other reasons, but I thought that was an error of judgement and should have been criticised as such).
The immediate trigger for #boycottnovara was, as I recall, Novara publishing a piece by Jacob Bard-Rosenberg, who had been part of a group which some years previously had made a very presumptuous and poorly-judged intervention with respect to a sexual assault and the ensuing attempt to hold the perpetrator to account. The piece Novara had published had had nothing to do with these matters, and JBR was not himself accused of assaulting anyone, but the level of unresolved ill-feeling and trauma within those circles was such that merely to accredit his existence in public in this way was enough to re-ignite the whole thing. The resulting situation was extraordinarily ugly and stupid, and everyone who played a part in escalating it ought in my view to be ashamed of themselves.
So to fascism, and to fascist-sympathisers, and fascist-sympathiser-sympathisers, and so on. My honest opinion of Miller is that he's a self-promoting clown who's latched onto the controversialism of certain art-world dickheads with respect to the alt-right - Deanna Havas and so on - for largely opportunistic reasons. How far up his own arse he's really gone with all the esoteric Evola-inspired codshit he comes out with I can't really say. He's not the sort of person of whom it's generally meaningful to ask whether they're sincere or not. The only principle he consistently holds, it seems to me, is that he, Daniel "only God can judge me" Miller, is transcendentally innocent of all wrongdoing by definition, and anyone who has a problem with his behaviour is just some "nobody" who's projecting their ressentiment onto him. Maverick types like him are not uncommon in fascist circles, but they're mainly in it for the narcissistic supply. He'll move on in due course, and it will all have been a magnificent prank or whatever.
As for Nina, I'm reasonably sure she's not "a fascist", or really a "fascist sympathiser" in any meaningful sense, but rather someone who's behaving very stupidly and irresponsibly around someone who's behaving very stupidly and irresponsibly. Some of the things she's come out with are well dodgy, or sound well dodgy in the context of their being said around dodgy characters like Miller in front of an audience peppered with a sizeable contingent of alt-right trolls, but there's no solid evidence that she's committed to anything really resembling a fascist political programme. Maybe that's where she'll end up, but I find it hard to imagine. So, I think she's chosen to shit on certain basic principles that her former friends hold to be extremely important (like "don't publicly defend malignant imbeciles who put it about that all antifascists are delusional zealots acting out on their unacknowledged sadism and ressentiment" and "don't appear on public platforms with people whose art praxis includes exhibiting gross anti-semitic caricatures"), and I think there's a sort of fundamental bad faith involved in making that choice and then being outraged when people are angry with you for it, and start whispering about you, then yelling at you, then organising to stop you. But I think Stelfox has it basically right: this is all about trying to get out of an untenable position.
