Futurism's overrated

[luka]

Early 20th century broadly speaking, at least in terms of a movement.

Relativity theory, Einstein, Bergson, Cubism, Eliot, Pound

Or alternatively Freud, psychoanalysis, Surrealism, James Joyce

 

[luka]

Which is why Corpsey's point is relevant. Not futurism as an aesthetic, but futurism as a core component of the scene itself. The idea of pushing into uncharted territories via constant innovation and change that permeated throughout the entire scene - and in that sense, Headz, jump up, jazz jungle, tech-step etc can be seen as anti-futurist, an attempt to embrace retro sophistication or to fetishise production - inherently reactionary and conservative moves that shut down the possibility streams, to slow down the future rush.

Yes, this is the distinction I suppose I wanted to make, well done for articulating it. Not as aesthetic (the Jetsons, metropolis, 2001, Bladerunner, Battlestar Galactica) as motor, the engineering race

 

[droid]

Yeah, futurism as aesthetic/vibe (one of many vibes that were drawn on) versus futurism as creative impulse.

You can make a similar distinction between hip-hop samples used as a flavour in jump up vs hip hop breaks as core components or ragga/reggae vibe vs reggae bass as a crucial element.

 

[luka]

Outside of music, when was the last new future presented to us in art?

In every field but music, and aside from the odd figure fighting on refusing to acknowledge the war is over (jh Prynne) modernism gives way to postmodernism, the notion of progress is rejected.

 

[sadmanbarty]

futurism as creative impulse.

How many of the innovations in music of the last 60 years were futurist in origin or intent?

Not the kinks pioneering use of distortion

Not James brown inventing funk

Not rapping

Dancehall?

Etc.

 

[luka]

How many of the innovations in music of the last 60 years were futurist in origin or intent?

Not the kinks pioneering use of distortion

Not James brown inventing funk

Not rapping

Dancehall?

Etc.

What might futurist in origin or intent mean? Dancehall, obviously was in its digital incarnation.

 

[sadmanbarty]

Using digital technology isn’t the same as futurism. Those early riddims were about fulfilling contemporary social functions rather than going “let’s make up a music that’ll sound like the future”.

 

[luka]

Rapping no not specifically, but huge amounts of futurist rhetoric and positioning in the wider culture, absolutely and obviously. The kinks possibly not, but with Hendrix, the Beatles, certain currents in psychedelia, it's central and unavoidable and all of this is inseparable from the use of technology. Eg and then the gods made love, tomorrow never knows, digital revolution in dancehall, electro, drum machines, synths etc etc etc

 

[luka]

Using digital technology isn’t the same as futurism. Those early riddims were about fulfilling contemporary social functions rather than going “let’s make up a music that’ll sound like the future”.

In fulfilling social functions a music was made that not only sounded like the future but was the future. The same goes for early house music.

 

[sadmanbarty]

You’re equating futurism with using modern technology.

 

[sadmanbarty]

In fulfilling social functions a music was made that not only sounded like the future but was the future. The same goes for early house music.

Nowist music invents the future. Futurist music doesn’t

 

[sadmanbarty]

You’re equating innovation with futurism.

My w tire argument is that nowism creates innovation a lot of the time where futurism doesn’t

 

[luka]

there's a danger here of basing arguments on retrospective mind reading.
Did these musicians naively stumble on the future or did they go out looking for it or was it forced on them by technology. I don't know how useful that discussion is but clearly the music, once produced, was framed as futuristic. You can see that in kraftwerk dressing up as robots, the dances which accompanied early hip hop and electro, track titles and cover art, lyrics, etc etc etc.

 

[luka]

You’re equating futurism with using modern technology.

The two go hand in hand because modern technology produces effects which have not been encountered before and so sound like they have arrived from the future. Which in a sense, they have.

Chers auto tune hit very literally was a foretaste of the future, although the technology it used was, by necessity, of the now.

Sleng teng likewise. This is the arrival of the future.

 

[droid]

How many of the innovations in music of the last 60 years were futurist in origin or intent?

Not the kinks pioneering use of distortion

Not James brown inventing funk

Not rapping

Dancehall?

Etc.

Surely futurism can be defined about wanting to do something new, find new areas of exploration, rather than tread old ground, so:

Rock n Roll = futurism
Punk = retro
New Wave = futurism

Of course there are different axes. Musical/lyrical etc.

 

[luka]

Papas got a brand new bag was sped up from the original recording. It was on fast forward.

 

[sadmanbarty]

In pro-future, I just think futurism doesn’t attain it. Nowism does

 

[sadmanbarty]

Papas got a brand new bag was sped up from the original recording. It was on fast forward.

It was the future, but not futurist.

 

[sadmanbarty]

Rock n roll was the future, but not futurist

 

[luka]

In pro-future, I just think futurism doesn’t attain it. Nowism does

You can't just keep saying that! It doesn't mean anything!