Election incoming

[william kent]

I dunno what to believe really. It's perfectly possible that it's a part of a Russian disinformation campaign, but then again the Tories haven't disputed the content of the documents and it certainly plays in their favour to cast doubt on their legitimacy and stop people worrying about any plans they might have for healthcare, food safety standards and so on.

It went public just after the debate wrapped up too. Great timing.

 

[IdleRich]

Didn't the Telegraph also have the document before Corbyn?

 

[sufi]

The documents detailing the trade deal negotiations with the US. They were apparently floating around on Reddit for a month before Corbyn got hold of them.

Is the story now about how come Russian trolls are leaking uk-us trade talks papers and how they got their hands on it?

There's probably enough moles on both sides that the nhs will belong to putin by the time we brexit

 

[william kent]

Didn't the Telegraph also have the document before Corbyn?

Apparently they've had them since at least July.

 

[william kent]

Is the story now about how come Russian trolls are leaking uk-us trade talks papers and how they got their hands on it?

It's difficult to tell. It's already hit Sky, Reuters and Twitter and Reddit is covered in dodgy accounts saying it was definitely the Russians, Corbyn colluded with them etc.

 

[william kent]

Aaron Maté
‏Verified account @aaronjmate

And what is Reddit's source for this suspicion? The Atlantic Council. And who are among Atlantic Council's biggest funders? US-UK governments. All parties w/ an interest in blaming Russia, and an interest in avoiding a reckoning w/ the leaked documents' content. Sound familiar?

 

[craner]

I think Aaron Mate is close to the Max Blumenthal, Ben Norton, Rhania Khalek ’Grayzone’ crowd, just to issue a health warning.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Aaron Maté
‏Verified account @aaronjmate

And what is Reddit's source for this suspicion? The Atlantic Council. And who are among Atlantic Council's biggest funders? US-UK governments. All parties w/ an interest in blaming Russia, and an interest in avoiding a reckoning w/ the leaked documents' content. Sound familiar?

Nothing wrong with blaming Russia when Russia is to blame. Which, let's face it, it usually is.

 

[sufi]

Just by the way Eden is the winner of this election so far

 

[william kent]

Nothing wrong with blaming Russia when Russia is to blame. Which, let's face it, it usually is.

I guess, but based on what? British and American intelligence services? They're not exactly the most trustworthy bunch themselves.

 

[john eden]

Just by the way Eden is the winner of this election so far

This has also made my Twitter feed virtually unusable. Which is actually pretty great.

 

[IdleRich]

What's the fuss? Are they saying that a Russian leak gave the info to Corbyn? Or are they seeing that Russians somehow leaked it and then it entered the (semi)public domain and then Corbyn got hold of it and released it? Cos given that everyone had it before him the latter seems more likely doesn't it? And if it's that who gives a shit? Are the contents disputed? Not really seriously as far as I can tell. Isn't that more important here?

 

[william kent]

What I've seen is people spinning it as the Russians wanting Corbyn to win and Corbyn having done something shady. There are people pushing back saying the content is important, but there are lots of people now calling the whole thing a Russian plot and trying to score points.

Corbyn's currently refusing to disclose his source, which obviously doesn't look great.

Leaked NHS documents controversy is nonsense, says Corbyn

Jeremy Corbyn declined to disclose the source of documents used as evidence that the NHS would be “on the table” in a post-Brexit UK-US trade deal, after Reddit told of a link to a Russian interference campaign.

The Labour leader brandished the unredacted documents at a press conference last week, saying they revealed the US was seeking “total market access” after the UK left the European Union and therefore undermined Boris Johnson’s claims that the NHS would not be part of any trade talks.

However, the Conservative party said the material had already been online for two months and was simply readouts from meetings of the UK-US trade and investment working group. The international trade secretary, Liz Truss, said the price that the NHS paid for drugs would not be “on the table”.

There is heightened scrutiny over the origin of the documents – the legitimacy of which has not been called into question – after Reddit said on Friday it believed they had been leaked and then posted by an account which was part of a dubious campaign reported to have originated in Russia. But Corbyn refused to say how he obtained the documents and dismissed a suggestion that Labour had benefitted from a Russian trolling operation.

“This is such nonsense,” he said on Saturday at a zero-waste shop in Barry, Wales. “This is such an advanced state of rather belated conspiracy theories by the prime minister. When we released the documents, at no stage did the prime minister or anybody deny that those documents were real, deny the arguments that we put forward.

“We obtained those documents. We believed those documents to be correct and nobody until yesterday denied the correctness of those documents. The issue is there should be no interference in British politics by anybody else.

He added: “The prime minister has answers to give, which he refuses to do, about Russian donations to the Tory party or the report that he is sitting on about Russian interference in British politics. Of course there should be no interference in our British political system by Donald Trump or the Russians.”

Johnson said on Saturday that the source of the documents must be established. “Well I do think we need to get to the bottom of that,” he told Sky, from the side of a football pitch near Stockport.

“As far as I’m aware we haven’t yet established the truth about that. But what I certainly think is that document, whatever it was intended to prove, did not prove what Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party hoped that it would prove. And I’m afraid it was just another distraction.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...documents-controversy-is-nonsense-says-corbyn

 

[Mr. Tea]

I guess, but based on what? British and American intelligence services? They're not exactly the most trustworthy bunch themselves.

Well I was half - but only half - joking. The point isn't that Western governments and intelligence agencies are inherently any more honorable - that should go without saying - but that the Russians just seem to be infinitely more adept at this sort of thing.

I mean when was the last time you heard about trolls and hackers under the command of shadowy postmodern masters of illusion based here or in the USA interfering in Russian elections? The very idea is absurd.

 

[william kent]

We heard about all that from Western sources in the first place. And if we were doing the same over there, why would they tell us?

 

[IdleRich]

Yeah but they don't really have Russian elections, what are the CIA gonna do, finance one of Putin's opponents?

 

[IdleRich]

Ironic if the Tories are able to withhold the report showing how the Russians supported them AND spin it so Corbyn is the recipient of their nefarious game plan.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Yeah but they don't really have Russian elections, what are the CIA gonna do, finance one of Putin's opponents?

Well exactly. It's a totally asymmetric situation.

 

[william kent]

There was a Reuters report on this stuff a few days ago where the point was made that they don't know who it was and that if it wasn't the Russians then it was someone who very much wanted it to look like it was.

 

[IdleRich]

Maybe it was someone who wanted it to look like someone who wanted it to look like the Russians?