Ulysses (1922)

[Benny Bunter]

Anyway, great chapter, looking forward to meeting Bloom (again - read about half of it years ago but can't remember anything now)

 

[Corpsey]

Joyce project reckons it's a piss

The Joyce Project : Ulysses : This job

An interactive companion to James Joyce's Ulysses

m.joyceproject.com

I can see what you mean though, he's definitely got sex on the brain.

I think the best "evidence" for it being a piss is that I think a wank would possess his mind (and inner monologue) much more explicitly. Later on we understand Bloom has had a wank but I'm pretty sure we only switch to his perspective after he's busted? The ejaculation itself is alluded to in the fireworks display.

 

[Corpsey]

Spoiler alert but in Ithaca Bloom and Stephen share a piss under the stars.

 

[william kent]

Started Kenner's Joyce's Voices last night. It's a response to a letter he received asking him to elaborate on a comment he made about Joyce beginning Ulysses in naturalism and ending it in parody.

He starts off explaining the influence of Objectivity on narrative and uses the example of Gulliver's Travels and how in certain sequences Gulliver's narration proceeds according to his senses and the order in which he experiences things, i.e. when he wakes tied down, he doesn't mention he's tied down until after he's tried to move various parts of his body, found he can't and becomes aware of the ligatures restraining each of them.

 

[luka]

hes good at that sort of thing isnt he

 

[Corpsey]

I think it was Kenner who says the first sentence/para in Ulysses is channelling Mulligan's view of himself, his parodying of sombre catholic ritual. Kenner also points out the first part of the first sentence is a sort of Homeric hexameter ("stately plump buck Mulligan came from the stairhead bearing"). And that the words from the Catholic Mass he mockingly intones ("Introibo altare dei") are the translated words of the Hebrew Psalmist in exile, and so we immediately have a buried allusion to a "Hebrew cry for help amid persecution".

And he goes on from there, explicating brilliantly.

Ulysses is a poetic novel in that it so often compresses so much meaning into a single sentence, or even word ("Chrysostomos".)

 

[william kent]

Finished the Kenner earlier. The central thesis is what he calls 'The Uncle Charles Principle', the idea that a narrator can talk about something other than the immediate action of the novel. He also points out Joyce's narration will often take on the qualities of the closest character, like light bending round a star. He'll start using words and phrases the character would, even when the character isn't speaking or thinking.

Another thing that comes up is the idea of multiple narrators and one of them becoming increasingly restless and irritated as the novel progresses, which is why all the parodies and language games start appearing. The narrator's showing off and playing around before disappearing completely toward the end and being replaced by another narrator questioning The Muse in 'Ithaca' and then the raw, unfiltered Muse, "the Muse without Homer" in 'Penelope'.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Done episodes 4 and 5 now, really enjoyable. Absolutely love Bloom and he comes as a welcome relief from Stephen's incessant gloomy brooding. Very readable...so far.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Just finished the Hamlet chapter, that was fucking hard to follow. Best bit was when Stephen finally comes to the end of his grand theory after 30 ultra-dense pages and someone asks him if he really believes it - "No, he said promptly." epic trolling!

Good episode, but I really want Bloom back now.

 

[william kent]

You don't get either of them in the next one. You're at the point where each episode becomes a much more pronounced stylistic experiment. Bloom's back for the one after though and all but the final episode.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Yeah, I'm bracing myself for that. I actually thought the newspaper office scene with the headlines was relatively straightforward, alot easier than I expected, so we'll see how I go with the stylistic experiments.

All the episodes with Bloom - the breakfast, the stroll through town, the funeral and when he goes for lunch in the pub - have been incredible. He's become one of my favourite literary characters of all time just for those.

Getting a similar reaction to him as I did to Don Quijote, where you get quite pissed off at the author for making you fall in love with a character so much, only to have watch them get relentlessly punished chapter after chapter.

 

[Benny Bunter]

The moments when he almost crosses paths with Boylan in the street are unbearable. And how he keeps trying to put the inevitable cuckolding out of his mind but all these little coincidences keep cropping up to remind him of it...man, that's harsh.

 

[william kent]

Yeah, I'm bracing myself for that. I actually thought the newspaper office scene with the headlines was relatively straightforward, alot easier than I expected, so we'll see how I go with the stylistic experiments.

The next one, 'Wandering Rocks', is pretty mellow. It follows a handful of minor characters around for a while. It's a nice breather after the episode in the library.

 

[Benny Bunter]

"Who's getting it up?"

😬

 

[Benny Bunter]

The next one, 'Wandering Rocks', is pretty mellow. It follows a handful of minor characters around for a while. It's a nice breather after the episode in the library.

Oh well I'm glad to hear that

 

[william kent]

All the episodes with Bloom - the breakfast, the stroll through town, the funeral and when he goes for lunch in the pub - have been incredible. He's become one of my favourite literary characters of all time just for those.

Getting a similar reaction to him as I did to Don Quijote, where you get quite pissed off at the author for making you fall in love with a character so much, only to have watch them get relentlessly punished chapter after chapter.

I wasn't pissed off at Joyce for it, but some of the stuff in 'Cyclops' really makes you feel for Bloom. The Citizen starts talking shit behind his back, making fun of him and saying antisemitic crap. One of the nastiest characters in the book, maybe the nastiest.

 

[william kent]

The bit where Bloom imagines his dead son in 'Hades' really got me.

He ceased. Mr Bloom glanced from his angry moustache to Mr Power's mild face and Martin Cunningham's eyes and beard, gravely shaking. Noisy selfwilled man. Full of his son. He is right. Something to hand on. If little Rudy had lived. See him grow up. Hear his voice in the house. Walking beside Molly in an Eton suit. My son. Me in his eyes. Strange feeling it would be. From me. Just a chance.

 

[Benny Bunter]

The books full of really nasty cunts. I do like Buck Mulligan though, he's charming with it.

Stephen is just exhausting.

 

[Benny Bunter]

I love his thoughts on animals - the cat, the horses "their neigh can be very annoying" and when he buys the cakes for the gulls. He's got such empathy.

 

[luka]

hes not real