The Culture War

sus

sus

Moderator
Mr. Tea said:
I think the idea that Homo sapiens is literally facing extinction is an extreme interpretation of the phrase "humanity is doomed." If you take it as shorthand for "human society as we have come to know it is doomed", and look at events that are realistically predicted to happen this century - widespread collapse of nation-states, resource wars, large parts of the planet becoming uninhabitable, many millions of climate refugees - then it's simply an acceleration of things that have been going on for years.
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You in a masochistic mood today, Tea?

climatecommunication.yale.edu

Climate Change in the American Mind: May 2017

Our latest survey covers belief in global warming, perceived risks, and worry.
climatecommunication.yale.edu climatecommunication.yale.edu
Four in ten Americans (39%) think the odds that global warming will cause humans to become extinct are 50% or higher.
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yougov.co.uk

International poll: most expect to feel impact of climate change, many think it will make us extinct | YouGov

New YouGov study of 30,000 people in 28 countries and regions uncovers noticeable differences in attitudes between East and West
yougov.co.uk yougov.co.uk
the possibility that climate change will result in a new World War, or human extinction [is] a majority or plurality view in most countries
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And:
Mr. Tea said:
Worth pointing out that some people who are quite serious about the threat posed by Beelzebub recently tried to ward off the American government.
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Yeah, that was really close! A few hundred people in a country of 300 million broke into a building! We almost lost the American system of government!
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Leo said:
I'm not familiar with this one, can you explain? thanks.

also, check out the two articles I posted in the "Social Engineering" thread on the Illiberal Left.
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I hadn't seen that! I smashed the 'like' button.

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Given 1-5% is the correct answer, the fact that nearly half of Dems answered 50+% (an order of magnitude higher than reality) is pretty... worrying.
 
Leo

Leo

Well-known member
suspended said:
I hadn't seen that! I smashed the 'like' button.

View attachment 8736
(src)

Given 1-5% is the correct answer, the fact that nearly half of Dems answered 50+% (an order of magnitude higher than reality) is pretty... worrying.
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interesting, and not surprising. some of my more progressive friends are total scaredy cats who will wear a mask outside.

in fairness, it looks like almost one-third of Republicans also answered 50%, which is stupid high also.
 
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sus

sus

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Yeah one of the things that interests me about it is like

Where did this impression come from

It isn't that media outlets are pushing incorrect statistics about this sort of thing.

It's more insidious. About mood and implication than what is literally said
 
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sus

sus

Moderator
I suppose a lot of stuff is really about mood at the end of the day

Not to give Tea any ammo but it's true, when people report in a survey they think humanity is doomed, theyre responding with what they think the proper mood orientation is to the climate crisis. Not just about facts or concrete forecasts but what emotional response you ought to carry
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Cheerleaders of human progress (tech and moral) aren't sneered at for having the facts wrong, they're sneered at for having the wrong mood, yeah?
 
Murphy

Murphy

cat malogen
5qc8w8.jpg
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
@suspended - in your view, just what is the correct level of anxiety about climate change? Is it none whatsoever, since there's nothing we can do about it now? Or a little bit, you know, a sensible amount, but not so much that it gets in the way of our everyday lives or impedes "tech progress", whatever that means?

I could counter all those stats you posted by reminding you that a substantial fraction of your compatriots think climate change either isn't happening at all, or is nothing to do with human activity, and that a fair-sized minority believe the whole idea is a hoax (an idea frequently aired by your last president.)
 
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Leo

Leo

Well-known member
suspended said:
I suppose a lot of stuff is really about mood at the end of the day

Not to give Tea any ammo but it's true, when people report in a survey they think humanity is doomed, theyre responding with what they think the proper mood orientation is to the climate crisis. Not just about facts or concrete forecasts but what emotional response you ought to carry
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anxiety and uncertainty make people fearful, perhaps more than justified by statistics. that gets exacerbated by the general understanding that governments are slow, bureaucratic, often incompetent and corrupt. if we faced a dire situation but had smart, effective leadership in place, people might have a more realistic view.

it's like being in game seven of the World Series and having the team's worse pitcher on the mound. the incompetence of the leader causes elevated anxiety and fear.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Mr. Tea said:
@suspended - in your view, just what is the correct level of anxiety about climate change? Is it none whatsoever, since there's nothing we can do about it now? Or a little bit, you know, a sensible amount, but not so much that it gets in the way of our everyday lives or impedes "tech progress", whatever that means?

I could counter all those stats you posted by reminding you that a substantial fraction of your compatriots think climate change either isn't happening at all, or is nothing to do with human activity, and that a fair-sized minority believe the whole idea is a hoax (an idea frequently aired by your last president.)
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"My compatriots"—brother, I've never actually known a Republican in real life. That's the level at which political domination and homogenization of cultural spheres takesp lace her in America. The closest I've gotten is a couple libertarians—grass-smoking, polyamorous, voting isolationist. Even ol' Wisconsy is purple—maybe if I went down to a dive bar and chatted up some tatted-ups—but no, me, my neighbors? You've got me all wrong. My hometown and college buddies are more likely to make their FB avi a BLM hashtag, buy a ghost-written HRC bio, and rage against Silicon Valley's "algorithmic bias" than they are to ever worry about China as threat, or question the global warming apocalyptica, or admit that "maybe, under all of it, Republicans are human too." That's why I exist. That's why I am what I am. I am the mouth that will not shut up about their blind spots. I am the spittle that whets their chin hairs with the outgroup's wail. People think it's just ignorance that counts, but it's ignorance modified by hubris. An ignorant man who knows he's ignorant does nothing, hurts no one. An ignorant man who believes he knows a great deal—more than his fellow man, anyway—is dangerous. It's the provincialism of progressives, interacting with incredible hubris, that bugs. Sure, the Cons are stupid too—but nobody I know believes otherwise, so why would I waste my breath telling everybody about it? The point of information is informing; if you spend your days reinforcing each other's beliefs, you're not sharing knowledge, you're propping up one another's securities—hubris.
 
sus

sus

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And doomed literally means condemned to certain destruction or death, but words mean all sorts of similar-ish things, and "compatriot" gets used as often to mean "peer"
 
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