the Arbitrary
- Thread starter luka
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luka
Well-known member
so i guess a lot of it would be about that process of things unconscious and subconscious becoming conscious and able to be examined, questioned and modulated. what is unconscious is necessary what is conscious is always arbitrary, in that can then be changed, so that it is then a choice.
entertainment
Well-known member
sure we're arbitrary but the question is if there's anything outside ourselves that isn't.
we all know we're cobbled togehter by some random constellation of cultural social political situations coinciding with our birth and upbringing and so on that we all have different noses and blind spots and all that. we all know that all signals have been tempered and conditioned by everything from fetal traumas to the specific settings on our nerve endings and all that.
the question is surely whether that's all there is or if there's something outside of us that isn't arbitrary, something we all see through our own mist but something that exists nonetheless independent of us, completely exogenous.
this is the anxiety of the radical. is there anything outside the system? or do art get its meaning from the collective participation in a system?
if we're honest most of what is called radical or experimental art is mostly incidents of people intending to reject systems but instead ending up participating in them, finding new ways to reach old goals.
we all know we're cobbled togehter by some random constellation of cultural social political situations coinciding with our birth and upbringing and so on that we all have different noses and blind spots and all that. we all know that all signals have been tempered and conditioned by everything from fetal traumas to the specific settings on our nerve endings and all that.
the question is surely whether that's all there is or if there's something outside of us that isn't arbitrary, something we all see through our own mist but something that exists nonetheless independent of us, completely exogenous.
this is the anxiety of the radical. is there anything outside the system? or do art get its meaning from the collective participation in a system?
if we're honest most of what is called radical or experimental art is mostly incidents of people intending to reject systems but instead ending up participating in them, finding new ways to reach old goals.
entertainment
Well-known member
i'm fine with not seeing eye to eye with people about what is good and right, that's part of the fun.
but it sort of loses its meaning, doesn't it, if we're all just flailing at the air. there has to be something that can be worked towards.
but it sort of loses its meaning, doesn't it, if we're all just flailing at the air. there has to be something that can be worked towards.
entertainment
Well-known member
i think i'm making my way towards your thought paerhaps obliquely
luka
Well-known member
i wouldnt call your nose arbitrary. however if you were to select a new nose from the range of all possible options then there would be something arbitrary about the one you chose although in other respects that choice would be constrained by factors such as standards of beauty etc
entertainment
Well-known member
I was talking figuratively, like we have different instincts for the good and the right, different noses
entertainment
Well-known member
i lost my thread now
entertainment
Well-known member
suspended thinks you have an alien probably solipsistic system. but is it a system or is it a project, a collective but self-contained program of working towards the same thing as anyone else is working on in the bigger "culture?"
i think it's the latter.
i think we know, because this is what is presupposed in the way we have come to talk about these things, that there is something to be worked at, some plane of understanding things, that can't necessarily be finally arrived at but nevertheless strived towards.
i think it's the latter.
i think we know, because this is what is presupposed in the way we have come to talk about these things, that there is something to be worked at, some plane of understanding things, that can't necessarily be finally arrived at but nevertheless strived towards.