Judith Butler and the new identity politics?

[luka]

or malelesbian or whatever his name is

 

[version]

I think it'd be more effective to have more women making films than having men make more films about women.

 

[luka]

i dont even think it matters tbh

 

[Mr. Tea]

I think it would be more effective to have more women making films than having men make more films about women.

They'd probably just get it wrong because they were thinking about cakes or babies or something tho.

 

[luka]

fair point tea

 

[luka]

if someone wants to make a film hopefully get they get to make a film, whoever they are, but i dont think we need quotas to try and rebalance society in some way

 

[Mr. Tea]

fair point tea

When I'm right, I'm right.

 

[version]

if someone wants to make a film hopefully get they get to make a film, whoever they are, but i dont think we need quotas to try and rebalance society in some way

I'm not arguing for quotas or any specific strategy, just saying women are the best source for the feminine perspective.

 

[luka]

oh, yeah, thats obvious, like, youd be mad not to think that

 

[sus]

One thing I can't figure out is the huge proliferation of flags to represent every conceivable sexual orientation and gender identity, which seems to epitomize exclusivity and labelling, when the original rainbow flag was chosen for the exact opposite reason: to represent inclusion and diversity.

It's like how in the 20th century, people (via psychoanalysis, mainly) realized that we were introjecting authority and in fact controlling/ disciplining/ punishing ourselves. And that we even got off on it!

These people LOVE labels. They want ever more labels, even as they disavow labels.

 

[sus]

Exactly, political tribes. No ones denying that the left can constantly reinvent itself in the arena of politics. But does this mean anything at the level of civil society? Mostly, not at all.

At the end of the day, the left can only act within the bounds of politics as necessitated by global capital, because it has no programmatic content at the level of society to achieve. It is trapped by political reason precisely because it is political, and not social.

I agree but I think this is just how human beings are, right? They mainly care about power coalitions, not about abstract governance principles. You need the autists to get all anal about it

 

[luka]

your generation do love a label its true

 

[sus]

What about the female fantasy? Can you give examples of works that represent it? I aim to represent femininity from a male perspective. Where do we see the feminine perspective in our culture?

Move to New York and join the art and theory world. Or enter a humanities department at a liberal arts school. I swim in explicitly female-coded, feminist-coded representations all day long.

 

[version]

your generation do love a label its true

I think it's partly to do with the internet.

 

[luka]

everything to do with your generation is to do with the internet

 

[sus]

oh, yeah, thats obvious, like, youd be mad not to think that

I think we need second order analysis too though. El Morado is a masculine perspective on feminine perspectives, which is able to see things about feminine perspectives that maybe feminine perspectives can't. Many feminist analyses are second-order (perspectives on masculine perspectives) because it was the dominant perspective to challenge. But because first-order feminine perspectives haven't been ubiquitous for very long, and probably exacerbated by culture war touchiness, there aren't a ton of masculinist takes on feminine POVs.

Maybe what we really need is third-order. I would like a feminine perspective on El Morado's masculine perspective on feminine perspectives. I would like a masculine perspective on Lynn Margulis's perspective on neo-Darwinist's masculinism. I would like a capitalist analysis of a Marxist analysis of capitalism.

 

[luka]

didnt follow a word of that. whats el morando

 

[sus]

I think it's party to do with the internet.

I think this is half right and half wrong.

I think people in general love labels and always have, identitarianist desires run deep.

But the internet (and before that, mass media) led to a buncha types/labels/stereotypes becoming common knowledge. Now everyone knows the types and everyone wants to weasel out of them; cue PoMo irony culture.

So today we have this simultaneous self-identification and weaseling out of identification happening at rapid pace.

 

[sus]

didnt follow a word of that. whats el morando

It's my book you dunce! You said you read and liked it!

 

[luka]

oh right