HS2 and the infrastructure problem

[Mr. Tea]

Oh just scrap the connection and tell people to move south, oh wait, what the sq ft price around London again?

People have been saying for years that the money would have been far better spent modernising and otherwise improving the existing network across the North and the Midlands instead.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Or rather, a much greater improvement to transport for those regions could probably have been achieved for far less money.

 

[chava]

People have been saying for years that the money would have been far better spent modernising and otherwise improving the existing network across the North and the Midlands instead.

That's possible. But AFAIK this is not the sole example of major projects gone wrong in the UK lately.

 

[Mr. Tea]

That's possible. But AFAIK this is not the sole example of major projects gone wrong in the UK lately.

Oh god, well how long have you got? But it does stand out as being egregiously expensive even by UK standards. Current estimates for the total cost are coming in at around £100bn - and that's just the track and stations, never mind any trains. Adjusted for inflation, that's about half the cost of the entire Apollo programme.

 

[version]

The thing is if we do end up building homes or whatever else, you expect them to be shit anyway. Everything done as cheaply as possible, corners cut, and unlikely to last.

 

[Mr. Tea]

The thing is if we do end up building homes or whatever else, you expect them to be shit anyway. Everything done as cheaply as possible, corners cut, and unlikely to last.

Everything is done on the cheap but ends up costing a hundred billion quid anyway.

 

[WashYourHands]

 

[Slothrop]

Or rather, a much greater improvement to transport for those regions could probably have been achieved for far less money.

This is debatable at best, though. The big thing about HS2 was that it would have basically completely replaced the East Coast and West Coast mainlines for intercity services, which wouldn't just free up X number of slots per hour on those lines, it'd also mean that the local / stopping and freight services that were left on those lines could be packed in a lot more efficiently because they aren't having to work around staying out of the way of intercities. That gets you the sort of increase in capacity that you need if you want to get enough people and stuff onto trains to get significant numbers of cars and trucks off the roads, and you aren't going to get that by fucking around with a few junctions and signalling systems and lengthening some platforms.

 

[version]

@craner

HS2: The day they cancelled the 21st Century

This is the day he does it. It's the day Rishi Sunak gives up on the future.

iandunt.substack.com

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Just use double-decker trains if capacity's the issue

 

[Mr. Tea]

@craner

HS2: The day they cancelled the 21st Century

This is the day he does it. It's the day Rishi Sunak gives up on the future.

iandunt.substack.com

But even then, the ratio came in at 1.2:1, meaning that every pound spent would result in benefits of £1.20. Certain things have changed since that assessment was made - not least the cost of materials and labour and the economic impact of our habitual national nimbyism.

Man forced to sell home for HS2 has 'lost everything'

Roly Bardsley said plans for the high speed route through his property created a decade of hell.

www.bbc.com

‘I had to beg for a final Christmas in my pub before it was demolished for HS2’

Plan to axe rail project is piling further misery on those forced to sacrifice their homes

www.telegraph.co.uk

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/protecting-trees-and-woods/campaign-with-us/hs2-rail-link/

 

[Mr. Tea]

This is how I feel, increasingly, when I hear people dismiss any objection to anything, no matter the concrete impact of it on actual communities or ecosystems, as 'nimbyism':

 

[mixed_biscuits]

This is how I feel, increasingly, when I hear people dismiss any objection to anything, no matter the concrete impact of it on actual communities or ecosystems, as 'nimbyism':

View attachment 16344

This is basically the 'luxury beliefs' thing Braverman brought up; you've got your finger on the pulse!

 

[Mr. Tea]

This is basically the 'luxury beliefs' thing Braverman brought up; you've got your finger on the pulse!

Well she may well say that, but coming from any member of a Tory government, she obviously just means people who vote Tory, or might potentially vote Tory. Everyone else, as usual, can get fucked.

 

[william_kent]

Well she may well say that, but coming from any member of a Tory government, she obviously just means people who vote Tory, or might potentially vote Tory. Everyone else, as usual, can get fucked.

I only learnt today that she changed her name, allegedly her mother was a huge Dallas fan and named her "Sue Ellen" when she was born

edit: which explains a lot about why she hates everybody

 

[chava]

Full YIMBYism ahead, go go UK

Sir Keir Starmer says he is a house building Yimby

The Labour leader tells the BBC he is a "yes in my back yard" advocate - not a Nimby - on housing.

www.bbc.com

 

[Mr. Tea]

This is unexpected: apparently even the Germans can't make the trains run on time!

According to its own statistics, this September only 58.4% of Deutsche Bahn’s long-distance trains ran on time. You need only enter a station to know things have gone badly wrong. There is a constant drone of Tannoy announcements; indeed this is the melody that now accompanies all rail travel in Germany. Even when your train isn’t mentioned as late or cancelled in the announcement, it doesn’t mean you are safe. Once there is a slight delay, the minutes begin adding up, as if any train can lose its slot on the overcrowded tracks and be forced to wait its turn in the system.

Your next excuse is on platform 5 – German train travel has become an experience worthy of Kafka | Germany | The Guardian

Erratic Deutsche Bahn services make our commutes a misery. Luckily, their meaningless announcements are an art form, says German journalist Jens Schneider

tinyurl.com

 

[jenks]

This is unexpected: apparently even the Germans can't make the trains run on time!

Your next excuse is on platform 5 – German train travel has become an experience worthy of Kafka | Germany | The Guardian

Erratic Deutsche Bahn services make our commutes a misery. Luckily, their meaningless announcements are an art form, says German journalist Jens Schneider

tinyurl.com

i travelled on a few trains in Germany this summer - every single one was late. The Swiss are getting annoyed with the Germans constant unreliability. The mess that is Stuttgart station was impressively awful and even Munich's supposed refurb is already woefully behind schedule. Austria by comparison was a delight.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Full YIMBYism ahead, go go UK

Sir Keir Starmer says he is a house building Yimby

The Labour leader tells the BBC he is a "yes in my back yard" advocate - not a Nimby - on housing.

www.bbc.com

His timing is unfortunate: it appears that the young have been moving into extant properties in less popular parts, thereby regenerating them - the UK must have enough dwellings as is.

 

[Mr. Tea]

i travelled on a few trains in Germany this summer - every single one was late. The Swiss are getting annoyed with the Germans constant unreliability. The mess that is Stuttgart station was impressively awful and even Munich's supposed refurb is already woefully behind schedule. Austria by comparison was a delight.

I try to avoid schadenfreude where possible, but it's hard not to feel a twinge of relief that the UK is not the only notionally developed country that can't get its act together with stuff like this.