I hate Sigur Ros!

[greeneyes]

Bullshit! If that's the attitude you might as well get a live DVD in 5.1 sound with all the trippy visuals and whatnot and get the 'immersive' experience in the comfort of yr own home, rather than sit in a theatre full of prententious twats that deserve to be suicide bombed!

That's a ridiculous statement on so many levels. Why go see a sporting event? Why go see a symphony? Why go see live theatre? It's a unique experience.

I'm not even going near your suicide bomb suggestion.

 

[Buick6]

For me, it has to do with the fact that they seem to serve as a blockade against better music, via the terms by which they are described to/amongst young people. I understand the youthful desire to feel that one is living at the pinnacle of human achievement in basically all fields--to be "where it's at". But it's just a general pet peave of mine to hear young people take that contemporist exhuberance and turn it into broad generalisations about the "greatness" of "their" music, especially in making (usually ignorant) ascertations about the relative merit of "their" music within the context of all music that has ever been made. Sigur Ros is a band that I find musically particularly banal, perhaps worse than generic indie rock in that it purports to be/is viewed by fans as being "so much more" (this may well be the beef against Coldplay, as well--I've never heard them). I've had multiple experiences with young people whom I try to get interested in 50 years of advanced/experimental/cool-as-fuck music, whose ears/minds are essentially blocked with the bizarre notion that Sigur Ros represent the zenith of a progression about which they know nothing--and it's left me a bitter old man ; )

Still--I'm pretty certain that if I made a mix of Can and Faust and Reich and Riley and Cage and Red Krayola and This Heat and Eno and Funkadelic and Stockhausen etc. etc. and attributed the tracks to bands mentioned on Pitchforkmedia.com in the last three months, kids would respond to it more positively than if I told them "this is music made before you were born". Maybe I'm just being the ultimate curmudgeon--but I plan to try it. Because the point for me isn't that "it used to be so much better," but rather that it isn't necessarily always "the best ever" now--and we should, if we care about music, hopefully listen to the best music we can hear, regardless of when it was made.

None of this ire is directed toward you, I hope it's clear. Something just touched a nerve. My references are probably dated by now--but Sigur Ros, Mogwai, Godspeed You Black Emperor, all this Constellation/Kranky stuff being sold to kids as "really groundbreaking" rubs me the wrong way, because it's so bloody far from breaking any ground (not even to rob the graves of better music).

As for Can---message me on Soulseek at username manireik and I'll hook you up. They may bring a whooooole lot of music tumbling down at you, but it's a fun ride.

Beautifully stated. I remember over 10 years ago Reynolds giving the 'shoegazers' a good shellacking in MM, something about how weak their influences are and deritive they are and whatnot, and then he gave them a list of *great* records to search-out as sonic pointers (Mainly Kraiutrock and Eno stuff), to which they all started sound like... Sigur Ros would have the shoegazers as MAJOR 'influences', so their music is actually really shallow.

They're a band so conscious of their 'subtleties' that they have no subtlety, part of what makes their sound incredibly banal or *cough,cough* SHITE (why their 'intellectual' audience can't hear this is truly amazing, and prolly part of the reason why right-wing politics are so successful these days, but thats another discussion...)

Geeez you could put them up there with 'Train', who for all their sentive-new-age-cock-rock-posturing, actually have a good TUNE or two (unlike the Ros).

 

[shudder]

Still--I'm pretty certain that if I made a mix of Can and Faust and Reich and Riley and Cage and Red Krayola and This Heat and Eno and Funkadelic and Stockhausen etc. etc. and attributed the tracks to bands mentioned on Pitchforkmedia.com in the last three months, kids would respond to it more positively than if I told them "this is music made before you were born". Maybe I'm just being the ultimate curmudgeon--but I plan to try it. Because the point for me isn't that "it used to be so much better," but rather that it isn't necessarily always "the best ever" now--and we should, if we care about music, hopefully listen to the best music we can hear, regardless of when it was made.

"I heard you have a compilation of every good song ever done by anybody."

But really, I do understand the idea of their ears being blocked. Mine once were, by some mix of Radiohead and Sigur Ros... Although I do think that I was in part broken out of that blocked-ears mode by Radiohead too, when I would read interviews where they constantly denied that they were doing anything all that "out there," and that there was much else to listen to... (I don't think I've ever heard Sigur Ros say that, although I also don't think they themselves are too full of their own importance in interviews).

None of this ire is directed toward you, I hope it's clear.

Very clear! I was actually kind of afraid people would misinterpret me as a rabid 17-year-old SR fan blinded by their "brilliance," and that I'd get a talking to!

 

[Jesse D Serrins]

They're a band so conscious of their 'subtleties' that they have no subtlety, part of what makes their sound incredibly banal or *cough,cough* SHITE (why their 'intellectual' audience can't hear this is truly amazing, and prolly part of the reason why right-wing politics are so successful these days, but thats another discussion...)

So my subjective enjoyment of Sigur Ros from time to time is actually a bullshit, bogus experience?
And it was really wierd too- the whole time I was reaching for that lever with George Bush's name next to it, I was wondering, "why the hell am I doing this," but I just couldn't stop myself...

 

[zhao]

there is without a doubt something special and original about SR's sound. they do not sound like any of the bands mentioned.

while I like them OK, certainly much much better than all the other wank passing off as new-rock these days, the Can comparison is just plain ridiculous. who ever said that first should be gently, playfully, slapped in the face. it's like comparing... the nice little garden in back of your aunt's house to the rainforest in Peru.

 

[Ness Rowlah]

sigur ros is what you get if you have an island of only white people bumbling about with each other listening to bjork.

i cannot think of a more boring enviorment for something to be concieved in.

Having been to Iceland (both north and south in back '91) I can say
it's quite an exciting and dramatic place. Great nature, great people, but rubbish local beer (Eigils).

Even if Iceland was "boring" - sometimes those boring environments bring out the most exciting stuff (loads of the punks came from suburbia, Ballard still lives there and see also K-punk's current piece on The Cure) (not a rule - see Coldplay, Snow Patrol et al).

As for Sigur Ros - I'll take them over Coldplay or U2 any day.

 

[Mika]

In a Concert Hall!

There was a time I would've considered going to see the band, particularly after Ágætis Byrjun was released.

I think that the album that followed felt like they were delivering the heartstrings a bit too consciously. They also began tapping the populist vein more explicitly by playing up the 'infant language' - part-gibberish, part-Icelandic - having untitled tracks and blank-ish graphic space for fans to 'design' their own imagery: "we're whatever you need us to be."

(There was that track that kept reminding of Vanilla Sky though, making me want to shatter the CD into fragments.)

I was quite surprised that they became so incredibly popular to be honest, to the point where celebrities would be showing up at gigs in the United States gushing about transcendance, inspiration, beauty, and so on (spare me the philosophical 'insights' of Hollywood actors, along with the overbearing sentimentalism of Cameron Crowe, please). Like all great manifestations of new ageism, it revealed a kind of desperate need for spirituality in people - a very public display of things that you wish would remain private, embarrassing to witness.

Generally, it shows up the fact that people are just not dealing at all - clinging onto 'something', a vague sentiment to give them hope.

But maybe I'm being cold.

 

[owen]

a band so conscious of their 'subtleties' that they have no subtlety

that's beautifully put! they're full of woefully unconvincing signifiers of the 'oceanic', the sweeping, the dramatic and other such and whether they nicked those signifiers is neither here nor there (tho for the record i would severely distrust anyone who preferred them to 'future days')- they're just dull dull dull.

an old pal of mine used to habitually listen to them in the bath. that's quite fitting really- like relaxation tapes for indie kids

 

[infinite thought]

blurgh. naked indie kids listening to whale music.

 

[owen]

she's pretty tho

 

[infinite thought]

it's a category denunciation! whales listening to indie music equally as appalling

 

[Buick6]

an old pal of mine used to habitually listen to them in the bath. that's quite fitting really- like relaxation tapes for indie kids

Sounds like a great premise for an indie pr0no movie! LOL!

 

[blunt]

But it's just a general pet peave of mine to hear young people take that contemporist exhuberance and turn it into broad generalisations about the "greatness" of "their" music, especially in making (usually ignorant) ascertations about the relative merit of "their" music within the context of all music that has ever been made.

Isn't that kind of certainty the privilege of youth? There are precedents for most forms of cultural expression, and it's only with experience and the sense of perspective that comes with it that one really begins to take that on board. That's a pay-off of sorts; but equally, nothing ever sounds as exciting as it did when you were 21...

You seem to concede that point yourself, soundslike - but I'm not really sure it's worth getting too worked up about. I mean, you *do* have inevitablility on your side. These "young people" will all get older and wiser. They might still hold Sigur Ros in some affection, but they'll probably laugh - like the rest of us - at the hubris of their youth. Unless, of course, they just turn into a curmudgeon

 

[soundslike1981]

Isn't that kind of certainty the privilege of youth? There are precedents for most forms of cultural expression, and it's only with experience and the sense of perspective that comes with it that one really begins to take that on board. That's a pay-off of sorts; but equally, nothing ever sounds as exciting as it did when you were 21...

You seem to concede that point yourself, soundslike - but I'm not really sure it's worth getting too worked up about. I mean, you *do* have inevitablility on your side. These "young people" will all get older and wiser. They might still hold Sigur Ros in some affection, but they'll probably laugh - like the rest of us - at the hubris of their youth. Unless, of course, they just turn into a curmudgeon

I disagree with the notion that things sound less exciting the more experience one has with music. In fact, music has never sounded so good to me as it has during the last six or seven years, since I let go once and for all any investment in "being where it's at". Rather than trying to fill my time/get excited about now (simply because now is now, which seems like a shallow impetus), I've been able to seek out the music from *any* time that genuinely lives up to the energy I invest in listening.

Music wasn't that exciting to me when I was 19--but I wanted it to be. What drove me to give up on any especial emphasis in contemporary music was the fact that I realised I was having to *try* to be excited, which was a demoralising feeling for someone so heavily wrapped up with music. As soon as I quit trying to "keep up" and perfunctorily buying the new records people were talking about, I started to really have some fun.

If now I come across as a curmudgeon, it's only because I resent the time (and money, frankly) I wasted on such banal music (though fortunately by the time Sigur Ros came along, I was pretty fully divorced from the hip). I make mixes for young people because I'm an evangelist, trying to save them from being trapped in false devotion to passing fads ; )

 

[Buick6]

I disagree with the notion that things sound less exciting the more experience one has with music. In fact, music has never sounded so good to me as it has during the last six or seven years, since I let go once and for all any investment in "being where it's at". Rather than trying to fill my time/get excited about now (simply because now is now, which seems like a shallow impetus), I've been able to seek out the music from *any* time that genuinely lives up to the energy I invest in listening.

Music wasn't that exciting to me when I was 19--but I wanted it to be. What drove me to give up on any especial emphasis in contemporary music was the fact that I realised I was having to *try* to be excited, which was a demoralising feeling for someone so heavily wrapped up with music. As soon as I quit trying to "keep up" and perfunctorily buying the new records people were talking about, I started to really have some fun.

If now I come across as a curmudgeon, it's only because I resent the time (and money, frankly) I wasted on such banal music (though fortunately by the time Sigur Ros came along, I was pretty fully divorced from the hip). I make mixes for young people because I'm an evangelist, trying to save them from being trapped in false devotion to passing fads ; )

Just because you are 'old' doesn't mean you have to subscribe to the notion that 'new' music made by 20 year old art and humanities students isn't 'shit'. Age gives you a wider perspective about music rather than the 'young-dumb and full of cum' tunnel vision a yopunger person would get reading the NME or whatever. there's nothinh I like more than say listening to, for example Dinosaur Jrs' 'Your living all over me' or even 'Bug' - albums I bought when they were 'new' and I was at the impressionable age and loved them, and to sit here 10 years later and rediscover them with completely fresh ears and still get the old feelings and even new sensations, 10years vintage later.

I just have a feeling that few of the 'new' indie rock 'darlings' are just too clever, too worked out, too aware of their own subtleties to provide rock that has depth and that 'x-factor' that makes the stuff last.

To me Sigur Ros are the definitive examples of that problem.

Another thing is I'm finding all the really challenging 'new' bands or artists these days are in their mid-30s anyway, which is a worry.

But I find that time is really the only test and leveller for any art full stop, and as I get older take great pleasure in rediscovering stuff I ignored when younger to hear with fresh ears today.

It's also interesting in noting how recording technology changes perceptions and allegiances. I remember in the early 90s that Butch Vig/Steve Albini loud-soft-loud wall-of-rock sound was the rage, and sitting here in 2005, I couldn't think of anything sounding more dated and shithouse. I remember at the times that bands were gong for that 70s 'sound' and certain producers saying that studios were better in the 70s than the 'shit of the 80s' with digital and what not. Kinda ironic cause that 'shit from the 80s' - namely electro-pop like Human League or even Eurythmics - sound devistatingly 'full' and 'warm', compared to the alternative - 'industrial' - which sounds tinny and shit - put on a Foetus record and you'll totally understand!

 

[In Moll]

If now I come across as a curmudgeon, it's only because I resent the time (and money, frankly) I wasted on such banal music (though fortunately by the time Sigur Ros came along, I was pretty fully divorced from the hip). I make mixes for young people because I'm an evangelist, trying to save them from being trapped in false devotion to passing fads ; )

Tho, with the invention of p2p, loads of money doesn't have to dropped on what might ultimately be 'banal' recordings. Loads of time perhaps, downloading from p2p, but not loads of money. Personally I haven't bought a release in about 2-3 years w/o thoroughly trying-before-buying. Though I lament this strips a bit of the excitement and mystery from buying releases with otherwise deaf ears, it doesn't leave me with an empty wallet and crates full of mediocre records.

As far as your the 'now' as impetus = shallow thing: if you truly love music and the culture therein, and don't invest some time in at least poking around in the 'now', you deny yourself the excitement of awaiting new releases from yer favorite artists, seeing them perform while they're still a functioning band/artist/dj, existing yourself within the culture, etc.

I'd regret if in 10 years I said to myself "hmmph, wish I would have payed attention 10 years ago, I'd have loved to see animal collective or gang gang dance when they were in their prime, but I was too preoccupied with avoiding new 'fads.'"

Since the majority of my favorite music was conceived before I was born, it's exciting experiencing movements firsthand as they're happening (grime & dubstep being what immediately springs to mind).

...just taking you literally and thinking aloud here.

 

[soundslike1981]

I guess after about age 17 and more than my fair share of horrible touring emo bands, I only liked the live experience, or the "cultural experience," when I ultimately liked the music itself, on it's own terms.

I've seen most of the functioning bands/artists I'd consider contemporary favourites. A couple left whom I haven't, but I'll get around to it if the chance presents itself. And I still try out an unknown (to me) act live now and again. But generally, live-music-for-live-music's sake does even less for me than mediocre recorded music.

I guess I'd have to feel like there was a vibrant, compelling musical scene near me to care whether I'm "missing out". I don't think I'm denying myself any excitement--there are a few going concerns whose new releases I'll still anticipate; but generally, I wore out that approach to musical excitement years ago (though I can still get excited about a previously o.o.p. reissue forthcoming). Discovery is discovery--if something is new to me, it's still caries that same thrill. If I were lucky enough to be living in, say, London circa 1979, you can bet I'd be very much about "now". But things feel an awful lot like 1985. I'm certain there are great things going on that I'm unable at present to know about--but if they're gems, I'll find them eventually, if I'm meant to.

 

[shudder]

I guess I'd have to feel like there was a vibrant, compelling musical scene near me to care whether I'm "missing out".

If you don't mind my asking, where do you live?

I make mixes for young people because I'm an evangelist, trying to save them from being trapped in false devotion to passing fads ; )

so... what kind of mix might you make for a youngblood who's convinced the music of Sigur Ros is the best that ever was?

 

[Buick6]

so... what kind of mix might you make for a youngblood who's convinced the music of Sigur Ros is the best that ever was?

U2 - the joshua tree
Mike Oldfield - tubular Bells
Enya - watermark
the Cranberries - everybody else is doing it so why can't we? (gettin' oldschool cred-stylee here!)
Slowdive - just for a day
Swans - burning world
Kronos quartet - s/t

 

[soundslike1981]

so... what kind of mix might you make for a youngblood who's convinced the music of Sigur Ros is the best that ever was?

I don't think I'd make a mix responding to the love of Sigur Ros so much--I'm so far from seeing the appeal that I can't really sonically relate them to anything other than 'The Sounds of Whales' and 'Rainforest Relaxation' or something like that you'd see in some "eco" shop, mixed with other borecore like Godspeed You Black Emperor and the like.

The main proselytising mix I've made was the 1981 box, which was about 460 bands/musicians over 25 hrs of music, etc. etc.

I'm working on one right now for conversion purposes (of Radiohead type kids, etc.) that just kind of combines the "holy shit" basics with a certain vibe that really does it for me--stuff like:

James Brown - "There Was A Time" (original)
Fela Kuti - "Shakara (Oloje)"
This Heat - "Horizontal Hold"
Modern Jazz Quartet - "Fine"
Joni Mitchell - "Blue"
Toumani Diabate - "Bi Lamban"
Arthur Russell - "Just a Blip"
Tom Waits - "Swordfishtrombones"
Pere Ubu - "Codex"
Bjork - "Anchor Song" (Live with Brodsky Quartet)
Robert Wyatt - "Little Red Riding Hood Hit the Road"
Herbie Hancock - "Watermelon Man"
Modern Lovers - "Roadrunner"
Elvis Costello & The Attractions - "I Want You"
Can - "Spray"
Pop Group - "Theif of Fire"
Stevie Wonder - "You Haven't Done Nothin'"
Nico - "The Falconer"
Faust - "Party 1"
Wire - "Mercy"
Bob Marley - "THem Belly Full (But We Hungry)"
Steve Reich - "Piano Phase"
Charles Mingus - "Solo Dancer"
Roxy Music - "2HB"
Yoko Ono - "Greenfield Morning"
Semar Pegulingan Club - "Gambang"
Velvet Underground - "I Love You"
Dave Brubeck - "Fujiyama"
Colin Blunstone - "Though You Are Far Away"
Brian Eno - "Unfamiliar Wind"
Bob Dylan - "Moonshiner"
The Meters - "Cardova"
John Cage - "Six Melodies for Violin & Harp #4"
Miles Davis Quintet - "Freedom Jazz Dance"
Howlin Wolf - "Who's Been Talkin'"
Colin Newman - "I Can Hear You"
Idjah Hadidja & Jugala Ensemble - "Bayu Bayu"