GRIME- breaking news, gossip, slander, lies etc

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
That's all I ask for.

I have no victim complex about the big bad evil man. I just see so much fucking waste and moronic A&Ring going on it upsets me because I want to see this music I love out there for people to access.
 
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gumdrops

Well-known member
grime by its nature is abrasive, angry, etc etc, which no, isnt going to attract EVERYONE, but it would have been nice to allow it to develop some sort of strong niche market for itself.

i dont disagree with logans points that there needs to be better A&Ring (urban A&Ring and development is at an all time low in the US and UK at the moment) and that the odds are stacked against urban music in the UK. i dont think any one could say british labels were trying to buy up artists in order to silence them though - no one got signed in grime, that was the problem.

obviously the way the industry only wants to invest in potentially big selling mainstream-ready product at the moment and nothing else is depressing and a big reason to do with why grime never got really invested in (and if were honest ISNT going to be invested in - that dream is over now) BUT how come UK garage guys put out proper vocals and songs etc without having to rely on the majors? i mean, werent sticky and people like that releasing records without proper A&R people or the majors backing? how did they manage to do it? i think a large reason to do with why grime hasnt done what we thought it would is like someone said in that hyphy piece - a lot (not all though) of artists just werent 'ready'. maybe A&Ring could have helped with that, i dont know. the only reason for the majors to get involved would be to get these guys to do albums. but most albums from UKG or d&b artists even arent that great anyway. i cant imagine it would be that different for grime. i know grime isnt 'dance music' in the trad sense but UKG had lots of vocal tracks too didnt it? yes it would be great if someone showed artists how to really beef their beats up, or how to record vocals better or make songs but if ukg guys were able to do it, why cant grime? were major labels telling so solid how to make songs before they got signed?

grimes problems have just been too manifold - being unable to decide on the mere name, never being able to decide on what the sound actually is, wanting to go commercial but NOT go commercial, its just never been content or had enough confidence in itself. yeah, british urban dance artists have always had that to a degree, but with grime, its just been so conflicted. sometimes that tension is a good thing but here, im not sure what happened. the fact were all STILL discussing more or less the same problems years later is a bit sad. and were all still hoping for the same things - big deals, mainstream attention, better quality control (my biggest gripe), etc etc. these things are NOT coming. its time to move on, think of some new ideas, take some risks (maybe some underground grime events organised impromptu like old raves? i dont know). i love the music, but it needs to decide what it wants to be. independent music is a huge market -you think guys like steve spacek, nicolette or 4hero are raking in mega bucks? theyre not but they still make great music. grime artists just need to realise their place in the scheme of things, stop expecting things that arent there, and work to the best of their ability within these parameters. become underground legends instead of trying to prematurely consider the needs/preferences of a mainstream audience that doesnt yet exist/give a shit. stop trying to fit into the mainstream industrys way of doing things - do things your own way and with some balls, not just cos you cant get signed. if they did get signed they would probably be moaning that they had to compromise.
 
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Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Grime's problems come fro the cultural problems of those who make it.

They all dream of being rich. But have no idea how it will happen. And the idea of being comfortable, even though that is WAY above their current financial status, doesn't seem to be enough motivation.

However, that does not excuse the complete lack of sensible investment in time money or expertise in these people who make music which is very successful on a underground market.

The thing with UKG as opposed to Grime is this: None of those producers started out making Garage. Grant Nelson, Jason Kaye and the Dreem Teem all started out in Hardcore. Nearly all of the MCs started out in Drum N Bass. MJ Cole was a classically trained pianist as well as an engineer for DnB label Sour. Sticky was making RnB and Hip Hop for years. Karl Brown even had an album out with Double Trouble!

Garage was a very profitable plan b for those people. And they brought with them years of industry experience, studio experience and training.

And when Garage turned dark and turned it's back on So Solid and their following artists, they also turned their back in terms of providing any business or technical nous to these young people trying to make music.

We are all starting out from scratch with no infrastructure.

Personally I am a STRONG believer in the need of Grime artists and producers to go into studios with engineers and vocal producers so they can craft songs which are technically better pieces of music. But that opportunity is not there for many people.

That doesn't even take a lot of money or a major label. It takes sensible investment.

I just want to see real grime music which I can play to a hardcore grime audience, but that is also musically sound enough to be played to wider audience. And that needs investment from outside sources to expedite the process otherwise it could take years and years, when it is realy a simple thing to solve.
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
Oh and regarding garage people releasing tracks through the mainstream without majors....

Funnily enough that VERY THING resulted in exactly the same situation as you had mentioned in the Hyphy article.

People like Sticky or Artful Dodger would license their track to a larger garage label. And they would then license it on to an established label with major distribution.

But when those tracks did well and it was time to release an album, the labels who signed those artists aren't able to get those tracks.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
I just want to see real grime music which I can play to a hardcore grime audience, but that is also musically sound enough to be played to wider audience. And that needs investment from outside sources to expedite the process otherwise it could take years and years, when it is realy a simple thing to solve.

id like to see this too. a lot of old skepta and jme beats have good ideas for example but to me they sound a bit too rough around the edges, not quite finished, or a bit amateurish like some of the not so good earlier swizz beats stuff, or just lacking body from a sonic standpoint. im not sure if this is intentional or not though. cos much as i like a lot of grime stuff, when you play it to other people, they just hear something that sounds very unprofessional and like some kids making music on a playstation (i know everyone has romanticised this idea here, rightly or wrongly, but its not always as good as that idea sounds).

funnily enough, i saw the credits to the new dizzee single and it says cage produced them but the music for sirens was by dizzee and mizz beats for the b-side (which is lyrically very mawkish). maybe that would be a good way for other guys to work in grime - keep the musical ideas but just have them actually produced/engineered by someone else who knows what theyre doing. i thought that was a bit weird personally but it could work out well.
 

sodiumnightlife

Sweet Virginia
yeh i was wondering how much input cage has on the producing process...i have the impression that dizzee does all the beats etc and then cage touches them up to professional quality. Do you know how it works Logan, is that correct?
 

Logan Sama

BestThereIsAtWhatIDo
I think they both work together in the studio symbiotically. They don't really have a defined role or pre-determined amount of input in each beat.

But for example, with the older Skepta and JME beats, there was nothing stopping someone trying to get the parts and then re-mix them in the literal sense of the word in order to make it more conducive to a vocal.
 

outraygeous

Well-known member
one of the reasons i stopped listening to recent hip hop is because it came a bit to clinical and polished sounding.

if people could capture the energy of grime then that would be sweet.

for example when i saw the 'leaked' video for ruff squad - xtra, that tune was stripped of all energy
 
Personally I am a STRONG believer in the need of Grime artists and producers to go into studios with engineers and vocal producers so they can craft songs which are technically better pieces of music. But that opportunity is not there for many people.


almost all the appeal of grime for true heads comes from that raw/harshness, conlfict in the sound

take that away and its not grime

a lot of great music has been made already in the genre - i think people are having these conversations now because the scene isnt progressing and theres far too much fraff - but you're talking as if grime hasnt produced anything worth playing on commercial radio

a little bit more pride and less money talk please
 

sodiumnightlife

Sweet Virginia
no i think logans right, there's ways to make thing sound harsh and raw that do actually have excellent production values. Something that has poor production values is gonna sound even worse after its compressed to fuck on the radio.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
give u more by dizzee and dee - perfect example of something professional sounding but still raw, and unlike anything else out there. or boyz luv girls by kano even or underground by ruff sqwad.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
i didnt think it was that good lol but the video is well made. better than a lot of guys videos. its a bit of a generic song of course but hes not bad, technically. i saw it on prancehalls blog. thought it was gonna be a bit of a joke thing but its actually not as 'hilarious' as you might think.
 

mos dan

fact music
i didnt think it was that good lol but the video is well made. better than a lot of guys videos. its a bit of a generic song of course but hes not bad, technically. i saw it on prancehalls blog. thought it was gonna be a bit of a joke thing but its actually not as 'hilarious' as you might think.

i guess the only joke was the streets ref. yeah it's pretty generic, you're right. christ, he's better than dogzilla though, not that that's saying much lol.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Wiley is on the cover of the latest issue of The Wire which is just out.

Stage Show riddim is at UK Record shop.
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
wiley on the cover of the wire? amazing... they should have had dizzee on there years ago too.... im not gonna buy stageshow til they release it properly. i want more than one vocal...
 

gabriel

The Heatwave
Stage Show riddim is at UK Record shop.

just the skepta three track ep with the stage show instrumental, yeah? no vocals yet or did i miss them?

btw how annoying is the 'you are listening to clip at ukrecordshop.com' voiceover in a weird american accent? :eek:
 
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