What went wrong with British music?

[carlos]

But nowadays I don’t now what to think of Loop, Telescopes, Walking Seeds, Senseless Things, Slab!, Silverfish...

the Walking Seeds album "Skullfuck" is one of my favorites! they were (in my mind) exactly what grunge was supposed to be. after that LP, they did not have the same edge- this LP was reissued on CD about 5 years ago. psychedelic noise-rock... great LP cover too...

 

[zoilus]

Unless there’s an underground army of smiths/jungle/grime influenced bands in the states that I dont know about.

Jungle and grime, not so much, but there's a ridiculous amount of Smiths influence currently evident in indie North America - I refer you to the Decemberists, Stars, Pernice Brothers, the Dears, Metric, Hidden Cameras, etc., and that's without even thinking about it.

My thoughts on Brit-decline are tangled, but I think certainly in terms of U.S. presence there's the fact that, first, mainstream programmers are much more willing to play black music and its offshoots than they were a decade ago (lessening the need to bring in outside white reinforcements) and a general ratcheting up of U.S. self-regard and xenophobia, making even British aliens less welcome in its pop'o'sphere.

 

[Le Bob]

I think one interesting strand is how in the 80s both in the UK and US, the path of rock progression was lost - bands stopped being rock and started being percieved as alternative or indie because they didn't become big - Husker Du, The Minutemen, REM didn't break through as they were expected to for example. We're still seeing the fall out from that now.

Well, yes and no. They were percieved as an alternative because they did not fit into the mould that were given air play by the big American radio stations, whose playlists were largely "run" (payola or whatever) by large recordcompanies. THe change in marketing during the 80's with the emergence of pop-videos led to an increasing focus on image and less focus on music (I'm not saying that image had not been an
important factor before the 80's). Second, indie because they released records on independent record labels. The terms are watered out these days, and are taken to mean "anything that resembles those bands".

Which leads me to:

In what way was lo-fi innovative?

Post-rock was a bit more interesting, but was also a combination of different strategies from the past - kraut, postpunk, shoegazer, even some prog...

It'll probably allways be possible to find separate names that are so odd and intractable that you'll have to call them innovative... but then, that's not really an innovation for rock as such, because the very idiosyncrasy making them unique is also making it impossible for others to really build on it. Jazz and "classical" have been this way for years. And electronica is heading there too.

The whole idea of being innovative is over emphasized and a result of fan-criticism. Whether or not you are innovative is by and large a subjective stance. The 80's rock bands were perhaps not innovative as such, but they fused ideas of what they loved and tried to make something for themselves through that. Mixing CCR and punk, for example. Interresting takes on, or mixing of, earlier generes will do, as has always been the case and was the case of post-rock (though I think they did it to dullness). Wit and smarts over innovation any day, which is why one can still be able to find good jazz these days.

 

[k-punk]

The whole idea of being innovative is over emphasized

Yeh, that's definitely the problem with British pop atm... far too many tiresome demands that bands should be innovative... the likes of Franz Ferdinand don't stand a chance in a critical climate that forbidding...

 

[Martin Dust]

I think MTV, Internet, Media (the way we now consume) and the HipHop/Indie split in journalism had a lot more to do with what went wrong - the cat just won't go back in the bag now, so best toss it in the canal...

 

[Grievous Angel]

This makes so much sense. Scott Asheton's drumming is phenomenal: pile-driving but at the same time there is a such a strong Motown soul influenced swing to it.

Absolutely. I've been arguing for the Stooges' inclusion in the funk canon since 1987.

 

[Le Bob]

Yeh, that's definitely the problem with British pop atm... far too many tiresome demands that bands should be innovative... the likes of Franz Ferdinand don't stand a chance in a critical climate that forbidding...

I'm not saying that THAT is the problem with brit music. It is a problem in so far that too many believe a given piece of music to be innovative, and that good music should be innovative, when in fact almost nothing of it is. Most good music (or any piece of art) have been old ideas run through other brains and mixed again with other ideas to create something of themselves (more or less). I wouldn't have a problem with Franz picking up old ideas if they had the means to turn it into good songs, a thing they rarely muster.