Maximo Park
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mms said:
Do you really think that this is the only reason that indy bands have been a success? Because the kids are forced to listen to them, and there's nothing else?
Certainly, there are other reasons. The whole Libertines and their spawn (The Others, Art Brut, Paddingtons etc) seemed to be trying to offer something that's very appealing - making their fans feel loved and wanted. The whole guerilla gigging, putting on gigs and parties where bands and fans intermingled, actually making an effort to get to know the regulars at their gigs, inspiring them to form bands of their own, plus a few larger-than-life personalities, - all this seemed (for a little while at least) to inspire a fantastic zealous following. Obviously, this is just an outsiders impression.
Of course, since a few of these bands became popular, now we have a load of very similar sounding bands, and the mainstream media (NME, XFM) saturated by lowest-common-denominator stuff.
As for Arctic monkeys, I think they sound ok (bit too much like the Libertines
), but they certainly seem to be an internet success. They'd been selling out gigs through word of mouth and internet distribution of mp3s way before Domino got in on the act. In fact, I think pretty much the whole was tipping them for success before they'd signed a deal with anyone.spackb0y said:Do you really think that this is the only reason that indy bands have been a success? Because the kids are forced to listen to them, and there's nothing else?
Certainly, there are other reasons. The whole Libertines and their spawn (The Others, Art Brut, Paddingtons etc) seemed to be trying to offer something that's very appealing - making their fans feel loved and wanted. The whole guerilla gigging, putting on gigs and parties where bands and fans intermingled, actually making an effort to get to know the regulars at their gigs, inspiring them to form bands of their own, plus a few larger-than-life personalities, - all this seemed (for a little while at least) to inspire a fantastic zealous following. Obviously, this is just an outsiders impression.
Of course, since a few of these bands became popular, now we have a load of very similar sounding bands, and the mainstream media (NME, XFM) saturated by lowest-common-denominator stuff.
As for Arctic monkeys, I think they sound ok (bit too much like the Libertines
no i didnt say any of that infact you've reinforced what i've said already in one sense - the appeal of these bands is the way they've been marketed - i've not said there are no alternatives as there are. But this stuff is the most heavily and directly marketed music for ages - just a cursory glance at the nme and this is clear.
It's not a natural or spontaneous thing it's very well organised and thought out.
They are offering something different (but the same ) as previous musical events but this sort of thing hasn't happened really or been utilised properly by labels. To put it bluntly - if anyone can actually say that this phenonmenon is because of the high quality of the music, because its a step forward or it's orignal then they must be 15 years old or younger.
The interesting thing is that utilising the web has created communities and really pumped some energy and money into going out and seeing gigs - which was one of the big worries of the fracturous nature of the internet and the way it handles music.
The other interesting thing is that a number of these bands are mixed racially and by gender without it being an issue, which kinda capsises ideas about sub culture etc - but it's become more clear that this is not a subculture in the end .
Speed writing at work so excuse the stream of conciousnss
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brotherjames
Member
Looking and listening to these British bands I definitely prefer Lightning Bolt, Deerhoof Black Dice, Wolf Eyes, Sightings, Noxagt, Circle, Comets On Fire, Sunburned Hand of The Man, Animal Collective, Vibracathedral Orchestra, Wooden Wand and the Vanishing Voice, Avarus...
Heard Lightning Bolt will be in the cover of The Wire next month btw
Heard Lightning Bolt will be in the cover of The Wire next month btw
On the corporate hand guiding indie/alternative. From February this year....
POP impresario Simon Fuller - famed for creating the Spice Girls and talent show Pop Idol -is looking to play a different tune by putting his money into cutting-edge indie bands.
Fuller is a founding director and backer of Ingenious Music, a venture capital trust looking to raise £20million to build a portfolio of music businesses.
In some cases, these firms will be created by Ingenious Music to develop its own artists using seed funding, with investment being ramped up if bigger labels sign them on.
In others, the company will take on artists already on a small record label to broker a deal with a major.
Ingenious plans to gain a share in the intellectual property rights of all the music in which it becomes involved. Indie artists are being favoured because they are more likely to have longer careers and more loyal fan bases than manufactured acts.
Fuller said: "Ingenious has a deeprooted knowledge of the music business and has demonstrated its ability to create new ways of working with the industry."
POP impresario Simon Fuller - famed for creating the Spice Girls and talent show Pop Idol -is looking to play a different tune by putting his money into cutting-edge indie bands.
Fuller is a founding director and backer of Ingenious Music, a venture capital trust looking to raise £20million to build a portfolio of music businesses.
In some cases, these firms will be created by Ingenious Music to develop its own artists using seed funding, with investment being ramped up if bigger labels sign them on.
In others, the company will take on artists already on a small record label to broker a deal with a major.
Ingenious plans to gain a share in the intellectual property rights of all the music in which it becomes involved. Indie artists are being favoured because they are more likely to have longer careers and more loyal fan bases than manufactured acts.
Fuller said: "Ingenious has a deeprooted knowledge of the music business and has demonstrated its ability to create new ways of working with the industry."
don_quixote
Trent End
when did indie lose any meaning? is there a definite point where indie stopped being indie and started being guitar music without solos?
mms said:
The problem with all this is that I'm guessing non of us went to those early Libertines gigs etc. And you readily admit that your evidence for the marketing of the music comes from "cursory glance at the NME". I'm not denying that the NME doesn't heavily push bands of a certain ilk, because they obviously do, but if the NME is your only reference point then how do you know what went on before they appeared in there?
Unlike, say grime, where a lot of people writing have a serious interest in the scence and make the effort to see the up and coming artists and really delving to find out whats going on, most of us don't have any contact with the indy scene. My point being that I don't think we're in any position to judge whether a particular band or mini-scene was/is spontaneous or a carefully planned marketing move.
spackb0y said:
that's not what i said at all , please re-read i'm actually right in the thick of it with this phenomenon and i know how it's done.
this is what i said
"the appeal of these bands is the way they've been marketed - i've not said there are no alternatives as there are. But this stuff is the most heavily and directly marketed music for ages - just a cursory glance at the nme and this is clear."
spackb0y said:
friad you're wrong there again mate.
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"the appeal of these bands is the way they've been marketed - i've not said there are no alternatives as there are. But this stuff is the most heavily and directly marketed music for ages - just a cursory glance at the nme and this is clear."
Yup, and I'm suggesting that there might be a reason these bands appeal beyond the way they're marketed. Whereas you seem to be saying from that quote that the only appeal is due to the way they have been marketed.
Can you explain why? I'm genuinely interested...
Yup, and I'm suggesting that there might be a reason these bands appeal beyond the way they're marketed. Whereas you seem to be saying from that quote that the only appeal is due to the way they have been marketed.
Can you explain why? I'm genuinely interested...
spackb0y said:
i'm not saying that the appeal is the way they've been marketed - more like this phenomena is down to a new way of marketing the strategies that are used to sell them and get them heard live are new strategies for indie bands that make the phenomena fresh even though the music isn't, or the social sphere its presented in, it simply reinforces the same thing rock music always seems to have done.
Using the internet is of course one big way of doing this to build grassroots fanbases etc and create a feeliing of exclusvity and belonging, esp in a groups success.
As for the bands, they do nice songs etc and are all very nice rock n ' roll etc - you can't deny that but there is no content that is indistinguishable from music made 10 or 20 years ago, but it's easy to pull the wool over a teenagers eyes.
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I disagree. I mean, I'm too young to remember 20 years ago but the indie around now is MUCH better than Britpop. Mainstream rock music was so lumpen in the mid-late 90s that even cheesy handbag house seemed preferable to dance to in comparison. At gigs then I seem to remember everyone would either stand around or mosh. Now you often get people at gigs actually dancing (or even stepping to the snare) to what are essentially 160-180bpm repetitive beats.mms said:
I'm a terrible musicologist, but the bands who I like out of the current scene (including Maximo Park, FF, The Futureheads, Bloc Party and many other Dissensus bugbears I'm sure) seem to have filtered this incessant motorik-esque drumming through a build/release dance music dynamic and it really works. For me. Particularly on the dancefloor or live. To wit: free your mind and your ass will follow!
k-punk
Spectres of Mark
This is now one of the oldest and weariest defences of indie on the block. Twenty years ago, the retro retreads of the Stone Roses - who remain for me the uber-criminals of indie - were sold as 'influenced by dance music' ---- listen to them now, and 'Fools Gold' apart (which was not influenced by house but by then 15 year-old Can records influenced by funk), tell me that there is any connection with 'dance'. FF and Bloc Party's relationship to dance music, pretty much undetectable to the naked ear in any case, is entirely mediated through the influences they shamelessly vampirize. The pub or rather studient union rock stodge of Maximo Park and Futureheads... you're having a laugh....
What's interesting about the perennial pretence of 'influence by Dance music' (the cover-all category 'Dance' itself being something of an Indie phantasm, signifying most anything that is 'modern', not arthritically arhythmic) is what it says about Indie's constant awareness that it is out of date, its need to legitimate itself by reference to a contemporaneity it is, in practice, dedicatedly opposed to.
What's interesting about the perennial pretence of 'influence by Dance music' (the cover-all category 'Dance' itself being something of an Indie phantasm, signifying most anything that is 'modern', not arthritically arhythmic) is what it says about Indie's constant awareness that it is out of date, its need to legitimate itself by reference to a contemporaneity it is, in practice, dedicatedly opposed to.
I see a distinction between "influenced by dance music" and "danceable". The first is endlessly debatable - what is dance music? what is influence? - whereas I was defending the current crop of indie bands to mms on the basis of the second.k-punk said:
I'd much rather dance to "Apply Some Pressure" or "Decent Days & Nights" than to Oasis, or Suede, or Shed Seven. Admittedly, replace those with "C'Mon Everybody", or "Paint It Black", or "Echo Beach", or "Ray-Gun-Omics", or "Living In Darkness", or "Get Ya Dub On" and the statement would still be true, but it doesn't make it any less valid.
(The best thing is that I can see a set like that tearing out the club in my head, and it seems more possible now than it ever did in the past!)
kennel_district
Active member
mms said:
i hope and assume that comment is made with tongue firmly wedged in cheek. But it reminds me of the debate raging in the nme letters page fifteen years ago, ironically about middle class fans liking indie, and stifling the working class roots of the music. Pretty inane then, and i'm not sure that aligning music with class is that useful a tool for either criticism or analysis.
kennel_district
Active member
ewmy said:
come to the griffin on leonard street in shoreditch this thursday. we appreciate dancers, and you might well appreciate the music.
no i'm not really interested in that stifling roots or anything, i'm not into authenticity like that stuff i'm just being cheeky- but at least they debated stuff like that , class and music is pretty interesting - it's not possible to claim something like grime is from anything other than working class roots and music that is is always exciting, but that talk is also stifling i agree.kennel_district said:
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