Simon I get the good vs great distinction - that's what I meant about the oscillation, the fact that this music seems good not great b/c of abundance and/or because it's actually good not great. The technical production-centric explanations for this abundance of <i>good</i>ness does go a fair way toward filling in the gap I'm talking about...
"i do think of the whole micro-haus/German thing as being like sacrificing innovation to save pleasure.... or perhaps scaling back the role of innovation and also the standing of innovation in the scheme of things..."
But what is this comparison in relation to Simon? B/c the German trend has led mainstream clubland to a point of being more detailed, more intricate, more wideranging etc. than it has been in a very long time, while still much more propulsive and anthemic than the "proper" microhouse of a few years ago. The pleasure and the innovation are not opposed to one another (I'd go further and argue that this is the <i>house</i> legacy: innovations are always innovations in pleasure).
I know you like the M.A.N.D.Y. <i>Body Language</i> mix at least a bit - can you see how something like "Safari (Holden Mix)" is simultaneously a bit of a choon and a very unusual, boundary-pushing production?
Joe:
"I haven't heard any of those songs. Well, I've heard Cardiology and I've heard Isolee, but I haven't heard the Isolee remix of Cardiology. I woudn't call either formally innovative I probably set the bar on that a bit higher than you tho. Because I have heard Jacques Le Cont, and I thought his thing was doing recreations of 80s electro pop. At least that's what it sounds like to me."
Yes, well, obv. innovation is rarely universally perceived (old man re <i>any</I> dance music: "it's just repetitive banging sounds innit"). As I said what I think Le Cont is doing that is inventive and unusual is fairly subtle (and cleverly hidden within unsubtle frames) - it's not the sort of thing that can be picked up without first engaging with the music, without at first being prepared to admit that recreations of 80s electro pop might be the site of innovation (although I'm being unfair on Lu Cont in allowing this description of what he does - go and download e.g his remix of The Faint's "The Conductor"). This is a truism of course - it's much easier to perceive micro-innovation in the styles of music we care about than in those we don't. But that will equally apply to your standards of innovation as it does to mine.
Having said that, I wouldn't say that what Lu Cont is doing that I think is interesting is just "micro-innovation" - it's not solely innovating within the strict terms of his chosen style but rather has implications for a much broader swathe of dance music, how we think the relationship b/w dance and pop etc.
Re the bar - that's why i wanted yr definition of innovation. Because if you say Isolee isn't innovative then i wonder if there's any current music that is innovative - in which case my point still stands that dance music is a currently a relatively strong performer.
"i do think of the whole micro-haus/German thing as being like sacrificing innovation to save pleasure.... or perhaps scaling back the role of innovation and also the standing of innovation in the scheme of things..."
But what is this comparison in relation to Simon? B/c the German trend has led mainstream clubland to a point of being more detailed, more intricate, more wideranging etc. than it has been in a very long time, while still much more propulsive and anthemic than the "proper" microhouse of a few years ago. The pleasure and the innovation are not opposed to one another (I'd go further and argue that this is the <i>house</i> legacy: innovations are always innovations in pleasure).
I know you like the M.A.N.D.Y. <i>Body Language</i> mix at least a bit - can you see how something like "Safari (Holden Mix)" is simultaneously a bit of a choon and a very unusual, boundary-pushing production?
Joe:
"I haven't heard any of those songs. Well, I've heard Cardiology and I've heard Isolee, but I haven't heard the Isolee remix of Cardiology. I woudn't call either formally innovative I probably set the bar on that a bit higher than you tho. Because I have heard Jacques Le Cont, and I thought his thing was doing recreations of 80s electro pop. At least that's what it sounds like to me."
Yes, well, obv. innovation is rarely universally perceived (old man re <i>any</I> dance music: "it's just repetitive banging sounds innit"). As I said what I think Le Cont is doing that is inventive and unusual is fairly subtle (and cleverly hidden within unsubtle frames) - it's not the sort of thing that can be picked up without first engaging with the music, without at first being prepared to admit that recreations of 80s electro pop might be the site of innovation (although I'm being unfair on Lu Cont in allowing this description of what he does - go and download e.g his remix of The Faint's "The Conductor"). This is a truism of course - it's much easier to perceive micro-innovation in the styles of music we care about than in those we don't. But that will equally apply to your standards of innovation as it does to mine.
Having said that, I wouldn't say that what Lu Cont is doing that I think is interesting is just "micro-innovation" - it's not solely innovating within the strict terms of his chosen style but rather has implications for a much broader swathe of dance music, how we think the relationship b/w dance and pop etc.
Re the bar - that's why i wanted yr definition of innovation. Because if you say Isolee isn't innovative then i wonder if there's any current music that is innovative - in which case my point still stands that dance music is a currently a relatively strong performer.