IdleRich

IdleRich
Really nice post there Corpsey - you're making me want to read it again too.
Anyway, I just started reading a book called Vurt by Jeff Noon but I lost it, thing is i wasn't enjoying it that much that I want to buy it again but I feel that I've invested a certain amount of time in it. So... anybody read it? Can you tell me what happens at the end?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The Soft Machine

Snap! Finding it a bit hard to get into, though - I mean it's just page after page of drug nonsense and random buggery. Brilliantly written but...I dunno, Naked Lunch had at least *some* narrative structure, even if a very convoluted and schizoid one. I'll plough on with TSM though.
 

bandshell

Grand High Witch
Snap! Finding it a bit hard to get into, though - I mean it's just page after page of drug nonsense and random buggery. Brilliantly written but...I dunno, Naked Lunch had at least *some* narrative structure, even if a very convoluted and schizoid one. I'll plough on with TSM though.

Some days I find it hard to get into and some days I find it fairly easy. I can't read it if there's noise or something going on around me though.

I find myself going back and re-reading sentences but the whole book is like that anyway. You are just reading the same stuff over and over.

I enjoyed Naked Lunch more. I expect going back to it after this will make it seem like a breeze.

They're both great though.
 

BareBones

wheezy
Just finished Pynchon's 'Inherent Vice'. Enjoyable but disappointing really. A bit too silly in places, i get a bit bored of his wacky hippie stoner thing. He can do much/has done better. Apparently it's being made into a film.
 

faustus

Well-known member
Just finished Pynchon's 'Inherent Vice'. Enjoyable but disappointing really. A bit too silly in places, i get a bit bored of his wacky hippie stoner thing. He can do much/has done better. Apparently it's being made into a film.

Yeah, i agree. It was just... fine.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Just finished Pynchon's 'Inherent Vice'. Enjoyable but disappointing really. A bit too silly in places, i get a bit bored of his wacky hippie stoner thing. He can do much/has done better. Apparently it's being made into a film.

Is that his new one? I enjoyed V and - perhaps to a lesser extent - GR. I might get one or two of his other, older titles once I've ploughed through the several feet of unread book I've got sat glaring at me on my shelves...

Edit: yeah, I quite fancy M&D. From what I've read of it the language sounds maybe comparable to Stephenson's Baroque cycle, with eg. 'shit' and 'fuck' on every other page but "D--m you!" and "For C----t's sake!" censored, as appropriate to the setting (~1700). Which I found quite cool.
 
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BareBones

wheezy
yeah that's his newest one. It's very much a genre novel but with a twist, ie it's a noir detective pulp-fiction thing but written in his style with all the usual mad characters and shit. It's definitely the easiest to read of all his novels, but it kinda seems he's just pissing about a bit sometimes.

give Mason & Dixon a go i reckon - i've read them all and that one's my favourite. Doesn't get much love for some reason, but i thought it was incredible, majestic. And the title characters are easily the most fully-realised characters out of everything he's ever done. It's all written in a ye olde archaic style, which is tough going at first, but once you get into it it's amazing.
 

Gregor XIII

Well-known member
Inherent Vice was pretty much Pynchon by the numbers. Which was enough for me. I'm a huge fan. And he is getting kinda old, and has written some of the my favorite books of all time, so he's allowed to just rest on his laurels and churn out likable sillyness from here on out. I would love another Gravity's Rainbow, but I have no problem settling for another Inherent Vice. Soon, hopefully.

What I didn't understand though, was that several reviewers talked about the fact that it was detective fiction, as if that was somehow something new for Pynchon. I mean, there aren't that many private detectives in his books - Lew Basnight perhaps - but since Stencil and Oedipa, his books has been full of ordinary people trying to unravel the mysteries that sorround them. Inherent Vice seemed mostly to confirm that, yes, he has sort of been writing crime novels all along. Just, instead of comitting crimes, the secret organizations deliver mail, or stuff like that.


I'm reading Crime and Punishment. And yup, it is amazing.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Any tips on other books as massive and vibrant and downright biblical as Blood Meridian ( by other authors )??

I read it yonks ago as a student, but I really liked Nick Cave's And the Ass saw the Angel - totally OTT but if you want apocalyptic Southern Gothic epic Biblical nastiness, then look no further. I can mail you my copy if you like.
 

BareBones

wheezy
What I didn't understand though, was that several reviewers talked about the fact that it was detective fiction, as if that was somehow something new for Pynchon. I mean, there aren't that many private detectives in his books - Lew Basnight perhaps - but since Stencil and Oedipa, his books has been full of ordinary people trying to unravel the mysteries that sorround them. Inherent Vice seemed mostly to confirm that, yes, he has sort of been writing crime novels all along. Just, instead of comitting crimes, the secret organizations deliver mail, or stuff like that.

ha, yeah sort of, but this was a much more blatant detective-genre novel, rather than being about these sweeping, omnipresent conspiracies as most or all of his other stuff is. It felt like he was going over a lot of ground he already covered in Vineland, which I loved. Anyway apparently (according to the internet) the film is definitely being made - paul thomas anderson directing, and pynchon has given it his blessing and is advising on the script, so it'll be a fun watch i'm sure. robert downey jr being touted as doc sportello.
 
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Benny Bunter

Well-known member
I read it yonks ago as a student, but I really liked Nick Cave's And the Ass saw the Angel - totally OTT but if you want apocalyptic Southern Gothic epic Biblical nastiness, then look no further. I can mail you my copy if you like.

Yeah I read this a while back, very much a rip-off of Carmac Mcarthy I thought. The whole southern gothic thing seemed a bit forced though to me.

How about Faulkner? Not read any of his books yet but I gather that was one of the primary influences on Blood Meridian, along with Moby Dick.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Hmm, I dunno about 'forced', I just thought it was a bit OTT, as I said - but then, gothic horror is a pretty unsubtle genre by definition. Then again, I was about 20 when I read it and not very widely read, so you could be absolutely right.

Definitely mean to get round to some Faulkner at some point. I'm on a massive gothic horror/'weird tales' trip at the moment actually - read a collection of Poe last year and really dug most of that, and just finished this:

King.jpg


(sadly not that particular edition) which is great.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Have you read any MR James? He's kind of like the anti-Lovecraft: fairly limited ideas (basically fairly simple classic ghost stories with no bigger picture) but with a superb atmospheric understated prose style. My dream book would be the collected Cthuhlu mythos rewritten by MR James.

Faulkner - I read Go Down, Moses and thought it was excellent. Not exactly a biblical epic, though.

Also, I think I've said it before, but everyone who hasn't already done so should go and read Tillie Olsen's Tell Me A Riddle.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Just read Slaughterhouse 5, which is amazing - so short, so easy to read, so full of great ideas. I love how there's this incredibly insightful passage on how the American poor are taught to hate themselves and each other, and how this ties in with the American dream and its myth of easy wealth...which is delivered by an American who has defected to the Nazis and become a propagandist for them. And how there are these omniscient aliens who can see all times at once thanks to their four-dimensional perception, and the sage advice they offer to the earthling they've abducted is the most vapid feel-good platitude imagineable: "concentrate on the good things in life and try and ignore the terrible things".

I've put down The Soft Machine for the time being and just started Cities of the Red Night, which is fantastic so far - proto-socialist pirates, radioactive viruses, psychic Chinamen &c. &c., plus the usual backing cast of junkies, criminals and dusky bum-boys. Awesome.
 
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you

Well-known member
Slaughter House 5 is probably the most powerful war book I've read, it's incredible, concentrating on the good things is such good advice, yeah, I remember that bit - quality.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Just read Slaughterhouse 5, which is amazing - so short, so easy to read, so full of great ideas. I love how there's this incredibly insightful passage on how the American poor are taught to hate themselves and each other, and how this ties in with the American dream and its myth of easy wealth...which is delivered by an American who has defected to the Nazis and become a propagandist for them. And how there are these omniscient aliens who can see all times at once thanks to their four-dimensional perception, and the sage advice they offer to the earthling they've abducted is the most vapid feel-good platitude imagineable: "concentrate on the good things in life and try and ignore the terrible things".

(1) can you link to that passage, if it's on Google books? Interesting stuff.
(2) I think that's at once vapid and not vapid, like a lot of semi-aphoristic phrases. There's a sane and an insane way to see that. Taken by a sane person, who understands that terrible things do happen and engages with them as best she or he can, but at the same time doesn't want to be completely depressed by their reality (as the world obviously is a completely horrible and dark place, whose reality needs to be ignored at times in order to be happy) and so does 'ignore' them in some manner of speaking, it's fine; taken by an insane person, who literally puts their head in the sand and pretends bad things aren't even happening, it's fuckign appalling, and responsible for all kinds of evil.
Same with a lot of such 'common wisdom', I'd say.
 

slowtrain

Well-known member
I've put down The Soft Machine for the time being and just started Cities of the Red Night, which is fantastic so far - proto-socialist pirates, radioactive viruses, psychic Chinamen &c. &c., plus the usual assortment of junkies, criminals and dusky bum-boys. Awesome.

That one's brill - I'd definitely recommend going on and reading The Place of Dead Roads afterwards, it's the second one in that final trilogy and severely underrated (I don't think it's a Penguin?) - but possibly better than COTRN.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
(1) can you link to that passage, if it's on Google books? Interesting stuff.

Found it:

Kurt Vonnegut said:
America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves.... It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters.

American humorist Kin Hubbard said , "It ain't no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be". The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: "If you're so smart, why ain't you rich?"

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue... Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say, Napoleonic times.

Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.
 

slowtrain

Well-known member
Found it:

Excellent quote. I've been reading Sontag's 'In America' at the moment, it seems to be dealing with some of those issues (that idea of DIY in america actually crippling the people who don't manage to get rich), so I think Slaughterhouse 5 should be a good one after this.
 
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