i know its a list more or less made up of woebots personal favourites, so its probably pointless disputing the choices, but but as far as the grime selection, i personally wouldnt have picked chosen one or jam pie. i dont think theyre particularly representative of makes grime an exciting genre.
woebot's 100 greatest records ever
- Thread starter anhhh
- Start date
I love these sort of lists as I find it interesting that, in some choices, your tastes converge fully with those of the compiler(and by the way, well done to Woebot for listing the Ragga Twins album in the top 20; just the fact that someone's actually fucking done this is worthy of the highest praise) whereas other selections make you wonder just what the hell they're hearing in them that you're not. I was surprised that the "Phew" album didn't make it (I actually discovered that LP through Woebot and it's incredible), but was pleased to see appearances from Ninjaman, Lee Perry and impLOG (another WB turn-on)
Still, I can't help think Matt was temporarily struck blind, deaf and dumb when he rated 'Safe as Milk' above 'Trout Mask Replica' and 'Ice Cream for Crow', and the Velvet Underground better than '..with Nico'?? Madness!
Still, I can't help think Matt was temporarily struck blind, deaf and dumb when he rated 'Safe as Milk' above 'Trout Mask Replica' and 'Ice Cream for Crow', and the Velvet Underground better than '..with Nico'?? Madness!
martin said:
really? i'd have to say Trout Mask is the more commonly "critically acclaimed" beefheart record, but "safe as milk" is certainly a much more listenable record, i think... i like 'em both, but "safe as milk" is a record you can DJ w/o people looking towards the booth like "what the hell is going on??!?!?!?"
<i>i know its a list more or less made up of woebots personal favourites, so its probably pointless disputing the choices</i>
no no no! the sole point of these lists is to dispute the choices. you can't fall back on this "personal favorites" crap. if it's just personal favorites, then we're all spinning around in our hermetic little taste boxes and we might as well not bother talking to each other at all. i believe that songs in the key of life is objectively better than allen touissant and i'll happily sit here all day and argue it, even though there can be no resolution.
<i>The mood of list seems, without wishing to toady to WB, to transcend genre-led box ticking.</i>
I don't know... everything seems to have about 4-5 records to represent it... but it's blended very very well, mind...
no no no! the sole point of these lists is to dispute the choices. you can't fall back on this "personal favorites" crap. if it's just personal favorites, then we're all spinning around in our hermetic little taste boxes and we might as well not bother talking to each other at all. i believe that songs in the key of life is objectively better than allen touissant and i'll happily sit here all day and argue it, even though there can be no resolution.
<i>The mood of list seems, without wishing to toady to WB, to transcend genre-led box ticking.</i>
I don't know... everything seems to have about 4-5 records to represent it... but it's blended very very well, mind...
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robutfromitly
New member
Awesome list. I only have 14 of the albums listed and there's quite a bit I've never even heard of. Time to start searching.
joeschmo said:
Do what? You're argument seems to eat itself. I can think of no better way of proving an argument's subjectivity than the inability to reach a resolution. There's no such thing as a definitive list. Surely the whole point of them is simply to spread the love
amazing list!
most of the stuff i don't know, naturally
here's my two cents . . . .
(1) very pleased to see on the list =
the scientist -- bee remixes -- top top top record -- excellent choice -- very psychedelic and highly danceable!
Ragga Twins -- yes! -- though i think rum & black and suad actually put out best records on the label -- perhaps the "green man" single should have been included??? -- even so, glad to see this mentioned so high on the list
ACR -- not sure if i would have put "flight" on the list -- ACR are my favorite manchester band, though -- but my top manchester record is "love tempo" by quando quango
mark stewart -- all the mid-80s adrian sherwood is brilliant -- i tend to go more for tackhead/fats comet
virgo -- excellent chicago house, though not sure it'd be my top chicago house record -- my favorite chicago records are liz torres material, plus "sensuous woman goes dicsco," plus fast eddie's "can u dance"
manuel gottsching -- perhaps a tad overrated -- but a massively influential record
thelonius monk -- yes!
forrrce -- "keep on dubbing" -- one of my mates plays this record
lfo, "frequencies" -- best techno long-player ever
associates, "fourth drawer down" -- better than "sulk" -- i've got the "message oblique speech" 12" single off of it
my bloody valentine, "you made me realise" -- their best ep -- the last two tracks are absolutely sublime -- however, i think "i believe" off the ""feed me with your kiss" ep is their single best song
(2) personally don't rate =
postion normal -- maybe b/c i'm not english??? -- find this to be a novelty act at best
liquid liquid -- i like the record, but not top 100 material
tortoise = boring!
steve poindexter, "chaotic nation" -- me no like! -- you seriously like this???
the beatles, "the beatles" -- hardly their best effort -- i'm a "rubber soul" man
(3) intend to hunt down, based upon woebot's endoresement = thank you for the many many tips! =
john cale, "paris 1919" -- no good reason for me not to know this one
flourgon and ninjaman, "zig it up"
new horizons, "scrap iron dubs"
les vampyrettes
herbie hancock, "sextant"
hector zazou, "la pervista"
cosmic jokers, "cosmic jokers"
thomas leer, "private plane"
implog, "holland tunnel drive"
vivien goldman, "dirty washing"
bernard parmegiani, "de natura sonorum"
(4) have yet to find, but always on the lookout for =
young gods, "young gods"
most of the stuff i don't know, naturally
here's my two cents . . . .
(1) very pleased to see on the list =
the scientist -- bee remixes -- top top top record -- excellent choice -- very psychedelic and highly danceable!
Ragga Twins -- yes! -- though i think rum & black and suad actually put out best records on the label -- perhaps the "green man" single should have been included??? -- even so, glad to see this mentioned so high on the list
ACR -- not sure if i would have put "flight" on the list -- ACR are my favorite manchester band, though -- but my top manchester record is "love tempo" by quando quango
mark stewart -- all the mid-80s adrian sherwood is brilliant -- i tend to go more for tackhead/fats comet
virgo -- excellent chicago house, though not sure it'd be my top chicago house record -- my favorite chicago records are liz torres material, plus "sensuous woman goes dicsco," plus fast eddie's "can u dance"
manuel gottsching -- perhaps a tad overrated -- but a massively influential record
thelonius monk -- yes!
forrrce -- "keep on dubbing" -- one of my mates plays this record
lfo, "frequencies" -- best techno long-player ever
associates, "fourth drawer down" -- better than "sulk" -- i've got the "message oblique speech" 12" single off of it
my bloody valentine, "you made me realise" -- their best ep -- the last two tracks are absolutely sublime -- however, i think "i believe" off the ""feed me with your kiss" ep is their single best song
(2) personally don't rate =
postion normal -- maybe b/c i'm not english??? -- find this to be a novelty act at best
liquid liquid -- i like the record, but not top 100 material
tortoise = boring!
steve poindexter, "chaotic nation" -- me no like! -- you seriously like this???
the beatles, "the beatles" -- hardly their best effort -- i'm a "rubber soul" man
(3) intend to hunt down, based upon woebot's endoresement = thank you for the many many tips! =
john cale, "paris 1919" -- no good reason for me not to know this one
flourgon and ninjaman, "zig it up"
new horizons, "scrap iron dubs"
les vampyrettes
herbie hancock, "sextant"
hector zazou, "la pervista"
cosmic jokers, "cosmic jokers"
thomas leer, "private plane"
implog, "holland tunnel drive"
vivien goldman, "dirty washing"
bernard parmegiani, "de natura sonorum"
(4) have yet to find, but always on the lookout for =
young gods, "young gods"
IdleRich
IdleRich
re: I don't know... everything seems to have about 4-5 records to represent it... but it's blended very very well, mind...
Doesn't seem to be any garage/psyche stuff or that much in the way of soul or rock n roll or many other less cerebral genres such as pop. Or did I just miss them?
Doesn't seem to be any garage/psyche stuff or that much in the way of soul or rock n roll or many other less cerebral genres such as pop. Or did I just miss them?
<i> There's no such thing as a definitive list. Surely the whole point of them is simply to spread the love</i>
Sigh. This message board is so misnamed. It should be called I Love Music.
<i>Doesn't seem to be any garage/psyche stuff or that much in the way of soul or rock n roll or many other less cerebral genres such as pop. Or did I just miss them?</i>
I didn't mean it has every genre. Just the hipster ones Woebot likes, which obviously precludes pop ;o) For classic rock--which performs the function of allowing the display of a very selective appreciation of canonical stuff--you've got the White Album, Zep, Velvet Underground, Jimi Hendrix and Beefheart. For soul/funk, you've got the JBs (but no James Brown, which is pure obscurantism), the Meters, Allen Touissant and arguably Prince.
Sigh. This message board is so misnamed. It should be called I Love Music.
<i>Doesn't seem to be any garage/psyche stuff or that much in the way of soul or rock n roll or many other less cerebral genres such as pop. Or did I just miss them?</i>
I didn't mean it has every genre. Just the hipster ones Woebot likes, which obviously precludes pop ;o) For classic rock--which performs the function of allowing the display of a very selective appreciation of canonical stuff--you've got the White Album, Zep, Velvet Underground, Jimi Hendrix and Beefheart. For soul/funk, you've got the JBs (but no James Brown, which is pure obscurantism), the Meters, Allen Touissant and arguably Prince.
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Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
Love IV, killer music, magisterial energy... for me it's always a toss up between IV and Physical Grafitti, which has fabulous rolling funk grooves... but have you seen their live DVD? Absolute pants... to wit:WOEBOT said:
... which is missing from much of the live stuff, curiously.WOEBOT said:
Yes, serious student -- he tried to buy a well known Austin Spare painting of Gen's but decided it was a bit ardkore for him. Allegedly.WOEBOT said:
Thing about the psyche energy in Zep is that it's very similar to that of Parliament, listen to the live Mothership Connection album and it's all there... 'course P-Funk is even better than Zepp...
Woebot
Well-known member
joeschmo said:
for my money the allen toussaint pisses all over the stevie wonder from a very great height. cant hear innervisions and songs and talking book without feeling its heart FM.
did you slsk all this stuff or something joe? i was alarmed with the speed with which you seemed to have tabs on it all!
neu!: yeah you've gotta check this out again. back to the drawing board i'm afraid ;-)
brigitte fontaine: "so bloody french"!!! woah watch the backlash joe!
just ice: that disc is mad crazy, as westwood would would say. astonshing stuff. what do you want - the message?
jam pie: lots of hating on this. it does it for me
implog: marginal! its not supposed to be a list of "seminal" tracks, but wait and see, this will be slowly accorded the respect it deserves.
renegade legion: generic!?! au fait with gabba?
as for veering towards obscurity for obscuritys sake, you've got to be joking. i mean, with the greatest of respect, this is all kid's stuff. famous music fer crying out loud! do you REALLY want me to produce a list of obscure records?
-
was amazed how, looking back on it, it did appear that i was filling slots, soul/reggae/rock etc, but when i amassed the stuff, i literally chose my fave 100 without a single thought of this.
vis a vis subjectivity. its not something one can avoid. but these really would be my fave 100....
Woebot
Well-known member
joeschmo said:
havent got a clue what you're saying here! there's just no getting around the greatness of that music...
joeschmo said:
the jbs *is* james brown. on the back side he is described as "The Creator" also credited as producer, and he co-wrote the grunt with the band. you're fumbling around here a bit...
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2stepfan said:
suprised there is no p-funk on the list !
jimmy page lived in crowleys old house bolskine house on the edge of loch ness and is reputed to have the second largest selection of crowley books in the world
the soundtrack to lucifer rising he did talking is on page's label boleskine house recordings.
a pal of mine also called marcus lived with Page's family at a house on the edge of the thames in windsor as a kind of handyman. He saw no evidence of magical practice, just lots of guitars and that kind of lazy off-world rockstar decadence, maybe he gave it all up.
Apparently his immediate neighbour at that house natalie umbruglia is big into victorian seances so i heard on the grapevine, so maybe he just passed it on.
IdleRich
IdleRich
re: For classic rock...you've got the White Album, Zep, Velvet Underground, Jimi Hendrix and Beefheart. For soul/funk, you've got the JBs (but no James Brown, which is pure obscurantism), the Meters, Allen Touissant and arguably Prince.
I kind of meant earlier rock n roll, rockabilly, blues, country etc. Also, most of that stuff is more funk than soul but whatever. I suppose that what I'm saying is I thought that there were a lot of genres completely unvisited but I suppose that you could probably make up more than 100 genres if you put your mind to it so what can you do? Interesting list anyway.
I kind of meant earlier rock n roll, rockabilly, blues, country etc. Also, most of that stuff is more funk than soul but whatever. I suppose that what I'm saying is I thought that there were a lot of genres completely unvisited but I suppose that you could probably make up more than 100 genres if you put your mind to it so what can you do? Interesting list anyway.
<i>cant hear innervisions and songs and talking book without feeling its heart FM.</i>
I don't know what heart FM is. A radio station?
Anyway, one thought I have in relation to canon vs. non-canon is, I think canonical records almost have an extra hurdle to jump, inasmuch as they become so familiar simply by osmosis, which discourages actual listening in favor of judging things by their context (in other words, don't let some cheesy radio station blind you to the wonder of stevie). I wonder how the Allen Touissant record would stand up if you heard it all the time, rather than just when you pull it out of your carefully curated collection. I listened to it again last night, and I like it, it's nice, but I can think of twenty soul albums that beat it.
<i>did you slsk all this stuff or something joe? i was alarmed with the speed with which you seemed to have tabs on it all!</i>
I did. I also bought a number of the CDs already tho. Including the Neu, unfortunately. So I'll be trying hard to see the genius of that.
<i>i mean, with the greatest of respect, this is all kid's stuff.</i>
And with the greatest of respect, about half of it is only kid's stuff to a small amount of people who spend large amounts of spare time obsessively chasing down music on vinyl. That's fine with me! It just makes me laugh when you talk as if you'd put together a Q magazine list. Actually, I think Keenan's was more mainstream than yours.
<i>havent got a clue what you're saying here! there's just no getting around the greatness of that music...</i>
Oh, I love all those records. Well, not the White Album so much, but anyway. My point is, while I don't doubt the sincerity of your choices, I think inevitably when anyone puts together a list like this there is a self-consciousness about what it's going to look like and a certain amount of thought put into how the different records play off against each other. So while something like the Implog functions as an element of surprise and a testament to the breadth of your listening and free-thinking willingness to get behind something very few people have heard of, a light sprinkling of classic rock shows that you're also not afraid to like things that "everybody" likes and that you have the ability to bring discerning opinions to bear on the no-brainer stuff.
<i>the jbs *is* james brown. you're fumbling around here a bit...</i>
Uh, trust me, I know who the JBs are. My point is, the idea that James Brown's backing band, while completely wonderful, made a better record than any of the many amazing albums under his own name which he is a far more dominant presence on, is kind of... funny. I find there are always a few filler grooves on the JBs albums alongside the seminal much-sampled stuff. The anti-obscurantist obscurantist choice here would probably be one of James' more overlooked 70s things, like Mind Power or something. I've always been partial to In the Jungle Groove, although you'd probably consider that kid's stuff ;o)
ANYWAY, as I already said I think it's a wonderful list and the fact that I bothered to listen to a lot of the stuff I hadn't heard before, and argue about it, is testament to that.
I don't know what heart FM is. A radio station?
Anyway, one thought I have in relation to canon vs. non-canon is, I think canonical records almost have an extra hurdle to jump, inasmuch as they become so familiar simply by osmosis, which discourages actual listening in favor of judging things by their context (in other words, don't let some cheesy radio station blind you to the wonder of stevie). I wonder how the Allen Touissant record would stand up if you heard it all the time, rather than just when you pull it out of your carefully curated collection. I listened to it again last night, and I like it, it's nice, but I can think of twenty soul albums that beat it.
<i>did you slsk all this stuff or something joe? i was alarmed with the speed with which you seemed to have tabs on it all!</i>
I did. I also bought a number of the CDs already tho. Including the Neu, unfortunately. So I'll be trying hard to see the genius of that.
<i>i mean, with the greatest of respect, this is all kid's stuff.</i>
And with the greatest of respect, about half of it is only kid's stuff to a small amount of people who spend large amounts of spare time obsessively chasing down music on vinyl. That's fine with me! It just makes me laugh when you talk as if you'd put together a Q magazine list. Actually, I think Keenan's was more mainstream than yours.
<i>havent got a clue what you're saying here! there's just no getting around the greatness of that music...</i>
Oh, I love all those records. Well, not the White Album so much, but anyway. My point is, while I don't doubt the sincerity of your choices, I think inevitably when anyone puts together a list like this there is a self-consciousness about what it's going to look like and a certain amount of thought put into how the different records play off against each other. So while something like the Implog functions as an element of surprise and a testament to the breadth of your listening and free-thinking willingness to get behind something very few people have heard of, a light sprinkling of classic rock shows that you're also not afraid to like things that "everybody" likes and that you have the ability to bring discerning opinions to bear on the no-brainer stuff.
<i>the jbs *is* james brown. you're fumbling around here a bit...</i>
Uh, trust me, I know who the JBs are. My point is, the idea that James Brown's backing band, while completely wonderful, made a better record than any of the many amazing albums under his own name which he is a far more dominant presence on, is kind of... funny. I find there are always a few filler grooves on the JBs albums alongside the seminal much-sampled stuff. The anti-obscurantist obscurantist choice here would probably be one of James' more overlooked 70s things, like Mind Power or something. I've always been partial to In the Jungle Groove, although you'd probably consider that kid's stuff ;o)
ANYWAY, as I already said I think it's a wonderful list and the fact that I bothered to listen to a lot of the stuff I hadn't heard before, and argue about it, is testament to that.
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