Euthanasia

[muser]

good preparation for the internal debate I'll be having tomorrow

 

[Mr. Tea]

but it not as bad as it looks this keyboard i fucked

That's gotta be one sexy-ass keyboard.

 

[Mr. Tea]

i think the rationalisation of suicide might lead to unpleasant results

Waking up every day leads to unpleasant results for some people. "Life is suffering" is the first Noble Truth.

My attitude is that forcing someone to stay alive who wants to die is as serious an infringement of human rights as killing someone who wants to live. The ethical difficulty lies in distinguishing a person going through an acute and potentially reversible depressive episode - a person who is likely to one day say "I'm glad I didn't kill myself", if they can be dissuaded or prevented from doing so at the time - from a person who is depressed for reasons that are very unlikely ever to change.

 

[luka]

good preparation for the internal debate I'll be having tomorrow

This was the last we heard from muser, go well old friend.

 

[vimothy]

Waking up every day leads to unpleasant results for some people. "Life is suffering" is the first Noble Truth.

My attitude is that forcing someone to stay alive who wants to die is as serious an infringement of human rights as killing someone who wants to live. The ethical difficulty lies in distinguishing a person going through an acute and potentially reversible depressive episode - a person who is likely to one day say "I'm glad I didn't kill myself", if they can be dissuaded or prevented from doing so at the time - from a person who is depressed for reasons that are very unlikely ever to change.

its not a question of forcing someone to be alive tho, ppl are neither alive or they're not. the question is whether you want the state to rationally manage suicide. that seems extremely dystopian to me, irrespective of the underlying motivations of the ppl involved

 

[Mr. Tea]

its not a question of forcing someone to be alive tho, ppl are neither alive or they're not. the question is whether you want the state to rationally manage suicide. that seems extremely dystopian to me, irrespective of the underlying motivations of the ppl involved

"Manage" is a weasel word. Brings to mind schedules, quotas, that sort of thing. That's very different from helping to make it a bit easier and less painful for someone who has already made that decision for themselves.

 

[Mr. Tea]

To be honest, arguments against it tend to rely on the prospect of state-employed Existence Termination Agents going around bullying people into submitting to their own disposal, which is the same sort of slippery-slope bollocks you hear from the sorts who say "Well if gays can get married then pretty soon you'll have people marrying animals/trees/inanimate objects."

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Euthanasia should be illegal but if carried out nonetheless, judged humanely.

 

[muser]

This was the last we heard from muser, go well old friend.

I made the decision to drink all day so safely saving that debate for another day

 

[muser]

Euthanasia should be illegal but if carried out nonetheless, judged humanely.

If you going to make a sufficient framework to judge someone humanely it might as well be legal.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

If you going to make a sufficient framework to judge someone humanely it might as well be legal.

Theft is illegal but if a hungry homeless man steals your apple, you're going to let it go.

 

[muser]

sure but you cant really avoid the judicial system when a dead body is involved.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Yeah, but the system is encouraged to give some leeway.

 

[Mr. Tea]

its not a question of forcing someone to be alive tho, ppl are neither alive or they're not. the question is whether you want the state to rationally manage suicide. that seems extremely dystopian to me, irrespective of the underlying motivations of the ppl involved

Anyway, who says it has to be state-run, if that's your main beef with the idea? Dignitas is an independent non-profit. Last I heard, Switzerland isn't rounding up its sick and elderly into cattle trucks.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Euthanasia should be illegal but if carried out nonetheless, judged humanely.

What does that mean, though? Someone who fulfills the wish of their chronically ill partner should receive a charitably light prison sentence?

 

[john eden]

i think the rationalisation of suicide might lead to unpleasant results

You could say that about anything. The current arrangements lead to unpleasant results.

 

[vimothy]

"Manage" is a weasel word. Brings to mind schedules, quotas, that sort of thing. That's very different from helping to make it a bit easier and less painful for someone who has already made that decision for themselves.

"manage" is precisely what it is. the state cannot recognise pain or ease or even, ultimately, ppl. it's an abstraction.

 

[Mr. Tea]

"manage" is precisely what it is. the state cannot recognise pain or ease or even, ultimately, ppl. it's an abstraction.

Then I ask, again: who says it has to be up to the state?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Seems like your objection is to the state - perhaps its very existence - rather than to euthanasia, per se.

 

[vimothy]

not really