guardian article on the death of british black music

[blunt]

It bothers me a bit when black / white and indie / urban [...]

Sure thing. I mean, I think Naomi Klein is on to something when she says that the whole 'urban' tag was coined to sell 'black' music to white kids in middle America.

But I think the real problem - and what the Guardian article studiously avoided for reasons too myriad to mention all over again here - is not the relative absence of black faces in the charts. It's the fact that the indie thing is so fucking boring. Talk about a misnomer. Half of it's released or distributed by majors, and described as 'indie' simply because it sounds like stuff that came out on indie labels 15, 20 years ago. You might as well buy a Shakin' Stevens record, if you ask me

Blackdown started a great thread that led to discussion of the whys and the wherefores right here.

 

[IdleRich]

Well, there were a lot of complaints about the absence of successful indie bands. It bothers me a bit when black / white and indie / urban are used as equivalent divisions, but there is a pretty noticeable correlation...

She doesn't seem too sure about whether she means "black" or "urban" or actually "black and urban" as she doesn't seem happy that the singer from Bloc Party is black.
Anway, wasn't one of M-People (Mercury Music Prize Winners nineteen-ninety-something) white?

 

[blunt]

Anyway, wasn't one of M-People (Mercury Music Prize Winners nineteen-ninety-something) white?

Mike Pickering. If it's possible to be very white, he was. And in fact I think he was the 'M' in M-People.

To be honest, in my head, they're all white apart from Heather Small.

Hang on. I seem to know waaaaay too much about this. I'll get my coat.

 

[dHarry]

Anway, wasn't one of M-People (Mercury Music Prize Winners nineteen-ninety-something) white?

yes, Mike Pickering, former Manchester Hacienda DJ - on another race note here's a quote from an interview with him here:

http://www.djhistory.com/djhistory/archiveInterviewDisplay.php?interview_id=15

What about when the first house records started coming over?
About ’85 or ’86. You know, stuff like Wally Jump Jr. and JM Silk. We had a lot of old northern soul boys cos it was all 4/4 and quite pacy. I used to do a swap in London at a club called Fever run by Simon Gough at the Astoria. I got booed off. There were a lot of black guys there, and they were shoving notes into my face saying, ‘stop playing this fucking homo music’. At the Haçienda it was a really black night until ecstasy swept in. So I couldn’t believe it. About six or seven months later I played for Nicky Holloway at the Trip, which was also at the Astoria, and they were all like bingo-bongo, smiley T-shirts and I was like, ‘wait a minute…?’

How did the night change from being black to white?
Ecstasy.

Really?
Yeah. Once it exploded, it was weird, you could watch from Friday to Friday and see the crowd change in colour. In those days, most of the black kids would smoke weed, but they weren’t into chemicals. But then when ecstasy came in it wiped it all out. It was so quick. It was over about four or five weeks. It was because it was so packed, and they couldn’t do the moves so they retreated to the smaller clubs. It was a shame in one way.

 

[Raw Patrick]

"Mike Pickering. If it's possible to be very white, he was. And in fact I think he was the 'M' in M-People."

C'mon dude, it was M for Manchester! Search for the hero inside yourself!

 

[DJ PIMP]

But then, I don't recall seeing many articles bemoaning the absence of white faces in the charts during the late 90s / early 00s, when 'urban' sounds were comparitively in vogue

I thought that was part of the appeal of Britpop.

 

[henry s]

well, as long as we're goin' off on Mike Pickering here, I finally found the Quando Quango LP "Pigs & Battleships" in a used bin, and bought it on site, 'cos I recall Derrick May raving about it back in "the day"...and, it's pretty bland overall...apart from some vaguely "Latin" flourishes, I don't know what sets it apart from any of the other 3rd and 4th-tier stuff that Factory was putting out in those days...a very poor man's ACR, IMO...maybe they had a good single, and the full-length don't stack up, but I dunno...

 

[dominic]

yo! mike pickering is the man behind both t-coy's "carino" and quando quango's "love tempo" (though admittedly the mark kamins remix is the one to play) -- two of the top all-time tracks in my book -- i don't think the man has anything to apologize for, have heard a lot of very favorable accounts of him (hearsay, but whatever)

not even sure if m-people were entirely crap, i.e., i think that what they represented was perhaps far cooler than what they actually did . . . . ???

 

[Gabba Flamenco Crossover]

the author says indie never spoke to her as the bands didnt look like her and she hated the music, so id imagine its the same scenario for the majority white audience of the uk as well. they want people who look like them.

Yeah, that caught my eye. If you base your taste in music on whether the people making it look like you, then write an article bemoaning the majority white audience playing it safe... well, work it out.

This sort of thing didnt used to bother me because good black/ethnic producers had sound indie business models that were generally far better for them in the financial long run than taking a gamble on mainstream success (and because they were close to the street and werent viewing thier audience through PC-tinted glasses, they knew exactly how long a shot it was). But i wonder if filesharing hasnt caned this sector of producers disproportionately? Just because, I cant imagine teenagers on estates spend much of their money on records anymore whereas BITD they did.

Generally, my view of the internet/filesharing is that the UK's independent music sector ('indie' in the original sense of the word) has so far wasted a golden situation. This is a technology that could potentially obliterate all manufacturing and distribution costs, as well as making marketing a much more level playing field. Instead, we seem to have a situation where the indie sector has less power relative to the majors than it did a decade ago. It's a bit depressing to be honest.

 

[dominic]

and to go off on something of a tangent, mike pickering began as a northern soul dj, was deeply immersed in black music and culture for at least a decade before the acid explosion hit . . . .

and when he's talking about the black kids not having enough room to dance once the hacienda became really popular, he's referring to "jazz dancing" -- and his "carino" along with wally badarou's theme from "kiss of the spiderwoman" were pretty much the last jazz dancing anthems at the hacienda

 

[mms]

Mike Pickering. If it's possible to be very white, he was. And in fact I think he was the 'M' in M-People.

To be honest, in my head, they're all white apart from Heather Small.

Hang on. I seem to know waaaaay too much about this. I'll get my coat.

shovel wasn't a white man (bongos)

 

[blunt]

C'mon dude, it was M for Manchester!

Durrrrr

I'll get my other coat. And leave.

 

[jk_gabba]

It was just badly executed narrow-minded guardian journalism, trying to put a race slant on the presence of "too much indie music" is just bollocks, and I think only someone with no real appreciation of music could have written it.. Though to be fair the article was quite consciously about her experience of music rather than anything more valid, and there where a couple of interesting points...

 

[milkandhoney]

i def agree with what gumdrops said about black music's current weakness in the mainstream being due to emulating shitty american trends. popular black artists here ought to do with what the popular indie bands do, which is to unapologetically emulate trends from previous decades.

 

[hint]

popular black artists here ought to do with what the popular indie bands do, which is to unapologetically emulate trends from previous decades.

It's all becoming clear now.

Jamelia needs to make a Big Beat LP.

 

[milkandhoney]

It's all becoming clear now.

Jamelia needs to make a Big Beat LP.

personally i'd like to see so solid on some rocksteady...

 

[blunt]

popular black artists here ought to do with what the popular indie bands do, which is to unapologetically emulate trends from previous decades.

I'm thinking an album of Bucks Fizz covers by Kano, Dizzee, Lady Sov & Ms Dynamite.

(Truth be told, I initially wrote 'ABBA' for 'Bucks Fizz', but scared myself into thinking it might just work)

 

[milkandhoney]

I'm thinking an album of Bucks Fizz covers by Kano, Dizzee, Lady Sov & Ms Dynamite.

(Truth be told, I initially wrote 'ABBA' for 'Bucks Fizz', but scared myself into thinking it might just work)

ridiculous, lady sov could never be in that.

she is the modern-day female bob marley after all...

 

[labrat]

she is the modern-day female bob marley after all...

oh come on!!! she's not as bad as that!

 

[blunt]

ridiculous, lady sov could never be in that

I dunno. I reckon her particular kind of vocal inflection could really do justice to "The Camera Never Lies"