Why Conspiracy Theories?
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john eden
male pale and stale
They are niche but definitely gaining in popularity (the Aufheben piece has some stats on the increasing number of people who believe 9/11 was an inside job and matches it to the widespread use of the internet).
And the point is that capitalist media has a distinct function which is to manage things in the centre ground. Alternative culture can mean all sorts of things and one of them can be inspiring people to action - to collectively improve their conditions. This is in decline - arguably since the failure of the anti-gulf war movements in the noughties. But also since the onset of neoliberalism and fatcher blah blah blah.
luka
Well-known member
but again im broadly in agreement with you. id also point out that there almost certainly was some degree of cover up over 9/11 and that kennedy cnspiracies were mainstream before the internet again, becasue there clearly was some degree of cover up. people tend to notice obvious lies, and are liable to be upset and confused by them.
john eden
male pale and stale
Yes of course there are a bunch of factors. The levels of structural racism and class inequality we have are not set in stone, they are the result of the failure of past struggles...
But the question remains whether or not conspiracy theories (the topic of this thread) are helpful or not. There are other things that are less helpful, certainly. But saying that is basically whataboutery...
And in terms of JFK - you are right that there was a reasonably large subculture of people that were deep into that, but it was quite rare to meet them. The 9/11 stuff is pretty common amongst counter culture types - stickers in the bogs at Passing Clouds, the sort of thinking around Occupy etc. Memes that people will see on a daily basis if they are close to those circles, or people cropping up on message boards asking you to watch some godawful documentary that Explains Everything.
But the question remains whether or not conspiracy theories (the topic of this thread) are helpful or not. There are other things that are less helpful, certainly. But saying that is basically whataboutery...
And in terms of JFK - you are right that there was a reasonably large subculture of people that were deep into that, but it was quite rare to meet them. The 9/11 stuff is pretty common amongst counter culture types - stickers in the bogs at Passing Clouds, the sort of thinking around Occupy etc. Memes that people will see on a daily basis if they are close to those circles, or people cropping up on message boards asking you to watch some godawful documentary that Explains Everything.
john eden
male pale and stale
Also I do think you are entirely wrong about that. I find it hard to believe that absorbing what can often be quite large amounts of information about global politics has no effect whatsoever on people. That the spreading of the idea that we are ruled by an untouchable elite that can do terrible things without consequence is just the same as eating lasagne and chips.
luka
Well-known member
i wouldnt be inclined to think of it in terms of whether or not its helpful any more than id ask whether football, or biscuits were helpful. i think theres potential for it to be dangerous as far as it plays in to the peedo panic/witch hunts but not so much in terms of causing political apathy.
john eden
male pale and stale
I think it's just a bit boring to assume everything is neutral.
Football and biscuits are definitely both things that can be used to foster solidarity and bring forth the inevitable communist utopia.
john eden
male pale and stale
Anyway. There is also these things happening this week, organised by a friend of a friend:
TUESDAY 15TH 7-9 PM: LARC, London Activist Resource Centre, 62 Fieldgate Street, Whitechapel, E1 1ES. Focus on alt-right in age of Trump.
WEDNESDAY 16TH 1-2.30 Dreyfuss Room (Room 202) at 28 Russell Square, London WC1B 4HS. Focus on left-right crossover and convergence.
Blurbs written before the election result:
THE U.S. RADICAL RIGHT IN THE AGE OF TRUMP
In the United States, the campaign of Republican Party presidential candidate Donald Trump has been a huge catalyst for the radical right. Patriot movement paramilitaries publicly brandish weapons to force the privatization of public lands and intimidate Muslims and refugees. Rightists are attacking Black Lives Matter protests with firearms, and violence has skyrocketed at counter-protests against fascists. White Nationalism is having its biggest growth in decades, and now includes new faces: intellectuals, hipsters, prison gangs, and Third Positionists. Spencer Sunshine will talk about the landscape of the U.S. radical right, what is driving it, and how the presidential election might affect it.
Left/Right Crossover Movements:
In the last decade, many new forms of left/right crossover movements have developed in the English-speaking world. This includes the spread of new forms of Third Positionism, Julius Evola's influence, popular mobilizations against finance capital, conspiracy theories, doctrines of racial separatism on the Left and Right, the spread of anti-semitism, and the popularity of Sovereign Citizen pseudo-legal theories. In music, there has been a spread of Rock Against Communism, fascist neofolk, and black metal (NSBM) bands. Spencer Sunshine will talk about these new forms of "unorthodox" fascism and their similarities and differences with European movements.
Recent articles: http://www.politicalresearch.org/author/s-sunshine/#sthash.6MF6BRQS.dpbs
Website: https://spencersunshine.com/
TUESDAY 15TH 7-9 PM: LARC, London Activist Resource Centre, 62 Fieldgate Street, Whitechapel, E1 1ES. Focus on alt-right in age of Trump.
WEDNESDAY 16TH 1-2.30 Dreyfuss Room (Room 202) at 28 Russell Square, London WC1B 4HS. Focus on left-right crossover and convergence.
Blurbs written before the election result:
THE U.S. RADICAL RIGHT IN THE AGE OF TRUMP
In the United States, the campaign of Republican Party presidential candidate Donald Trump has been a huge catalyst for the radical right. Patriot movement paramilitaries publicly brandish weapons to force the privatization of public lands and intimidate Muslims and refugees. Rightists are attacking Black Lives Matter protests with firearms, and violence has skyrocketed at counter-protests against fascists. White Nationalism is having its biggest growth in decades, and now includes new faces: intellectuals, hipsters, prison gangs, and Third Positionists. Spencer Sunshine will talk about the landscape of the U.S. radical right, what is driving it, and how the presidential election might affect it.
Left/Right Crossover Movements:
In the last decade, many new forms of left/right crossover movements have developed in the English-speaking world. This includes the spread of new forms of Third Positionism, Julius Evola's influence, popular mobilizations against finance capital, conspiracy theories, doctrines of racial separatism on the Left and Right, the spread of anti-semitism, and the popularity of Sovereign Citizen pseudo-legal theories. In music, there has been a spread of Rock Against Communism, fascist neofolk, and black metal (NSBM) bands. Spencer Sunshine will talk about these new forms of "unorthodox" fascism and their similarities and differences with European movements.
Recent articles: http://www.politicalresearch.org/author/s-sunshine/#sthash.6MF6BRQS.dpbs
Website: https://spencersunshine.com/
luka
Well-known member
i would suggest looking at where conspiracy culture overlaps with your aims. for example how the financial system actually works has been an obsession of cranks since Ezra Pound at least. it has a seemingly irresistable tendency to elide into antisemitism but i dont think thats inevitable.
john eden
male pale and stale
Well I have been trying to understand the finance system through reading Marx. Antisemitism is possibly entirely inevitable if your understanding of finance is based on shadowy elites and focuses on individual personalities rather than processes, classes etc. The illuminati pamphlet thing would also be an overlap and so would Occupy.
luka
Well-known member
it is a competitive enviroment for ideas. if your lot cant get heard its ideas heard its a problem with either the strength of the ideas themselves of the presentation of those ideas id suggest. other ideas wont go away and leave the field clear for you. i dont think its helpful to say, well, we'd be ok if only it wasnt for all those other ideas in the world competeing for oxygen.
luka
Well-known member
there's single issue obsessives, like the kennedy lot or the truthers, there's a lot of frankly schizophrenic people, there's the antisemites, there's conspiracy theorists of the right like the john birch lot, and conspiracy theorists of the left. there's people like the synchromystic lot who are mostly interested in high weirdness, theres the paedo-satanic hysterics, there's all sorts really.