Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Hmm. Finally got a reply from my local (Labour) MP. Basically he just says yes, I shared your concerns, however I fully expect the amendments to cover any loopholes. :mad:
He then bangs on about how we need this bill to compete with China (obviously he means in business terms, but potentially it will allow New Labour to compete with that nation in all other respects...)

All in all- utter gash! If they genuinely want to limit it to business-only regulation then a full list of "off limit" Acts could be written in. The very fact they have refused to do this (as was suggested by the Tories) means they must want greater powers than they claim.
 
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corneilius

Well-known member
They want these powers all right ....

it's really serious. They wanna sneak it in, and are willing to have huge media scandals, a full reshuffle and other things to create enough media blizzard to keep it out of the headlines ... still many people do not know what is happening.

keep speading the word in whatever way you can. do some ad-busting! all you need is a printer, and a good eye for catchy slogans ..... he he heh! ;)
 

matt b

Indexing all opinion
corneilius said:
keep speading the word in whatever way you can. do some ad-busting! all you need is a printer, and a good eye for catchy slogans ..... he he heh! ;)

so (according to your recent comments) i have to live in the streets like the shouty nutter from parlaiment square AND do this- can you provide a generator for my cardboard palace?
 

corneilius

Well-known member
SOCRAP - the 21st Century arrives for protest

matt b said:
so (according to your recent comments) i have to live in the streets like the shouty nutter from parlaiment square AND do this- can you provide a generator for my cardboard palace?
No you don't! You do whatever you feel to do. Nothing else will have the conviction or committment needed for the task.

I just threw in a few suggestions for a laugh ...... I am not an executive, or one to issue directives, dictats or orders to be followed * shivers at the thought * ....... in fact that's the very concept I see as most detrimental to our survival. We live best when we work together, talk together, each at his/her own pace.

And what shouty nutter are you talking about? Brain Haw is not a nutter, that's for sure - he's one of the sanest people I have ever met!

http://www.parliament-square.org.uk

The occupants of the august building outside which Brian is holding his 5 year protest deemed it fit to ban him from using a megaphone .. much to the detriment of his vocal cords. Still it was a real joy to stand with him as Tony B., our beleagured leader, drove by, on his way into Parliament, as Brian rang a hand-bell, shouting "unclean, unclean - child murderer! unclean! unclean!) in his armoured, SUV'd column with motorcycle outriders, sirens a flashing - and all this to get from 10 downing street to parliament ...... and back again an hour or so later. Very entertaining!

I am sure you must have witnessed the behviour of said occupants in the 'chambers' of the aformentioned structure, known as the commons ...... verbal american galdiators ... and without the colour, flashing lights and with as much respect for the intelligence of those who for whatever reason watch either. Abysmal.

Sometimes I think people would be more honest if they had a big bucket of sand instead of a TV. One they could stick their heads in.

Work on a solar powered organic cardboard recycable all-weather protest placard with leds (a SOCRAP) is under way at various activist research establisments. You will be amongst the first to know! I will put your name on the list for BETA testers, if you don't object.;)
 
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gek-opel

entered apprentice
I received this info today from Saveparliament.org ....

This is the latest update on the Legislative and Regulatory Refom Bill (aka
Abolition of Parliament Bill). For more information and constantly updated list
of resources, visit the site at www.saveparliament.org.uk.

We have a lot to tell you about!

Since our last bulletin the Government announced a huge climbdown on the bill,
recognising there were some concerns and committing to reconsider the bill to
fit the 'Better Regulation Agenda'.

Since that announcement we have been waiting for the next move and finally, on
4th May, the Government published a list of amendments which will be voted on in
the Commons on Monday 15th and Tuesday 16th.

Our initial reaction to the amendments was literally, "We've Won!" but after
careful and detailed scrutiny by ourselves and a number of law professors we
have uncovered that the bill still threatens democracy in much the same way.

The Government has added the much requested veto which can be used in the
Commons as well as the Lords. They have also limited the bill to regulatory
functions.

However, the delegation aspect still remains in the bill and there is only a
limited list of excluded acts so as to ensure that core constitutional
enactments cannot be amended by order.

The most worrying of the amendments is the use of the Law Commission. A minister
may implement Law Commission recommendations 'with or without' changes'. This
means the minister can used the bill to amend legislation based on the
minister's inital idea, regardless of the recommendation from the Law
Commission. The bill also threatens the independence of the Law Commission,
which presents a huge threat to civil liberties.

The bill still does not mention business, which means a burden can be anything a
minister considers to be such, unless it affects only a minister or Government
department. If a minister considers that trial by jury is a burden on the
police, it could be abolished, for example.

An addition brought in with the amendments gives the power to abitrarily shuffle
around regulatory functions. A good example would be the BBC, whose board of
governors could be abolished if a minister so wished.

The bill is still raising concerns about time limits, also. The committee will
only have 30 days to consider an order which is not long enough, especially if
many orders are introduced around the same time.

What happens now?
-----------------
The bill is now returning to the main chamber of the House of Commons for it's
Third Reading, which is scheduled for the afternoons of Monday 15th May, and
Tuesday 16th May. If you have time, you are encouraged to log on to the
parliament.uk website and watch the debate live, or read the transcripts the
following day on TheyWorkForYou.com.
http://www.parliament.uk/
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

The debate will proceed like the Committee Stage before, where some amendments
are brought before the house which are either dismissed, accepted or voted on.
The amendments brought by the minister in charge, Jim Murphy MP, will all pass,
and those proposed by anyone else will all fail. The list of proposed amendments
is available here:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200605/cmbills/141/amend/60509a01.htm

The amendments will be read or skipped over in the order that they are
presented. Clauses 1 and 2 are expected to be entirely replaced. The first
amendment in the list is to present a new clause replacing clause 1. When it is
"Read a Second Time", it is up for consideration. The subsequent amendments
(a)-(e) are proposed amendments to this new clause. These have the potential to
change the clause, but they will all be rejected, because the Government
believes it's version is perfect. It will then be "Read a Third Time" and
inserted into the bill. The game roughly proceeds like that for the remainder of
the day.

To follow the proceedings effectively, you may want to print out the version of
the bill as it stands before the debate, and tick things off with a pen as they
go through and change it:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmbills/141/06141.i-ii.html

We will be tracking the progress of this stage as it happens on our blog which
you can find at http://bill111.wordpress.com/.

Unfortunately, the way these things are presented makes very simple things
highly confusing - perhaps to keep the public uninvolved! Indeed, if you don't
understand what's going on we'd urge you to write to your MP and bring the
matter to their attention as they are ultimately responsible for the
presentation to the public and can change it.

We'll issue another bulletin next week to let you know how things went in the
Commons if you don't get chance to look at either of the sites above.

What can you do now?
--------------------
In the meantime, we strongly urge you to e-mail your MP as soon as possible to
express dissatisfaction with the amendments which do not limit the powers in the
bill effectively enough. We recommend you urge your MP to vote in favour of any
amendments proposed by the opposition parties and vote against the entire bill
should they be rejected.

Cheers,

Phil Peter
Director, Save Parliament
http://www.saveparliament.org.uk
 

bassnation

the abyss
Rambler said:
Yeah, it was the LibDem MPs who were among the first to voice criticism of the Bill and bring it to national media attention. As a party they were against it pretty much from the off.



Not yet - we're awaiting details (and I can't find anyone who can say when we should expect them).

i wrote to the home office about this bill and i've just received a reply. I'm planning on scanning it in if anyones interested.

essentially, a committee has to examine each order that is passed, but they don't make it clear whether this is an all party committee of the kind that give ministers headaches or simply one of those lapdog versions which just report to the primeminister.

i fail to see why the existing system of checks and balances, using both houses (as crap as it may be) is no longer sufficient.

they also say that its ludicrous to suggest that they will use this to change constitutional matters (trial by jury etc) - although this assurance is of the "trust us" variety than it is based on hard fact.

the stated objective of allowing ministers to do what the hell they like is to "improve efficiency and remove any barriers to profitability". the powers allow ministers to decriminalise laws for individuals or businesses if profit is being harmed by "unecessary red tape".

that in itself sets alarm bells ringing - what if asda want to bulldoze a greenfield site and the existing planning regulations don't allow it? does this mean that ministers can steam in and help the company out? theres no mention of community concerns - just profit and efficiency for private companies and voluntary organisations (bloody churches and religious groups yet again being handed more power despite the uk being overwhelmingly secular).

anyway, their response did not quell my fears, in fact the opposite.
 
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gek-opel

entered apprentice
Its utter utter gash... and Bassnation: I completely agree about all this "faith-based" "voluntary" nonsense- it actually frightens me...
 

gek-opel

entered apprentice
Bassnation: And you are absolutely correct, the whole "getting rid of red tape" thing has been pretty much taken at face value, even here... presumably on the understanding that it was merely a technical matter, but as you say these laws leave totally open the prospect of Government collusion with big business to break the laws of the land- which is as big a threat as the basic constitutional ones which were flag-posted earlier...
 
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