Laptops and dubplates

[Slothrop]

But great DJs have always clocked the crowd reaction; the only difference is that Live means they potentially have a wider pallete to work from.

In particular, though, that they have a greater ability to mix in 'original' elements from their own material (although as Hurricane run pointed out people have been usings effects, drum machines and so on for ages) and then feed the reaction back into their productions - trying out a new riff, for instance, before bothering to build a whole track around it, or try putting an effect on an existing tune before going and using it on something new. Which might have more significant implications than just people not having to carry a record box to a gig...

By the way, as well as the other stuff posted, Native Instruments have got a demo video of Tim Exile wanking around with Reaktor. I get the impression that it's a bit more fragmented and show-offy than his live sets, since he's demoing what the technology's capable of rather than producing something musical, but it's still pretty cool.

http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=timexile_us&ftu=b4689b5556&flash=7

 

[hint]

serato/final scratch makes everything sound like shit IMO, all compressed and ugly.

This isn't down to Serato / Final Scratch... it's down to the file format you choose. Hard drives are getting cheaper and cheaper. No real reason why people shouldn't be using .wavs or .aifs these days, or even 320kbps MP3s.

The main factor at play here is that most club systems are set up to handle the signal from vinyl, playing on a Technics deck. This is far from an ideal method of playing music in terms of "accuracy", but through years and years of this being the norm, people have worked out how to compensate for the shortcomings when building the soundsystems in clubs. I presume that this will slowly change as more and more DJs switch to digital files.

 

[vizzie]

Is this actually quite an exciting prospect? Or is it just a pipe dream: the whole thing's actually going to remain a novelty with no real impact...

but what about bands that are trying to sound like DJs? Bands like Soundtribe Sector 9, The Bays, New Deal, Psylab... Soundtribe's members all use laptops actually. but I don't think they use them for sequencing. more for a large selection of synths and sounds.

not to mention that visuals at lots of shows have depended on computers more and more. It's just more convenient than lugging heavy analog equipment, even if you miss that large stage presence that the analog gear has.

the laptop will most certainly have an impact, and like disco, there will be a backlash (although probably not a public burning of laptops) and musicians will focus on electro/acoustic instruments again.

 

[shudder]

the laptop will most certainly have an impact, and like disco, there will be a backlash (although probably not a public burning of laptops) and musicians will focus on electro/acoustic instruments again.

didn't this already happen once? I sorta feel like there was a whole little phase of laptop acts, and a whole way of talking about them ("yup, he kinda just sat on stage and pushed play"), which led to a whole backlash... (maybe it's all in my head)

not *quite* relevant but worth quoting anyway:
"I hear that you and your band have sold your guitars and bought turntables.
I hear that you and your band have sold your turntables and bought guitars."

 

[vizzie]

not *quite* relevant but worth quoting anyway:
"I hear that you and your band have sold your guitars and bought turntables.
I hear that you and your band have sold your turntables and bought guitars."[/QUOTE]


right on.

 

[bassnation]

Using computers isnt DJing.

It is a performance of some sort, but it is not DJing.

djing is more than just vinyl - its always been about selection. i don't see why computers can't be used in that context.

if you are talking about sound quality of mp3s, well, you might have a point. but tying it to vinyl and turntables is a bit limiting and eventually thats going to be something from the past. surely it should move with the technology, esp. if your playing music that is electronic in nature at its core.

 

[Logos]

Grime and dubstep are out there and alone, in terms of the more dance styles which are still related, in some vauge way, to house and techno, in being obsessed with vinyl and two decks. I love the whole puritanism of it but its pretty conservative in attitude.

The techno guys long ago got bored with that and started switching to augmenting with drum machines, laptops etc etc, even abandoning turntables alltogether. How are they not 'DJs'? When the disco DJs got their heads around the concept of beatmatching, and creating continuous musical performances out of individual component records, they were pushing against boundries, not being conservative and relying on ossified ideas about music and nightclub experiences.

Logan, Richie Hawtin was augmenting his sets with more than just two turntables (909, FX) when you were still in school probably.

 

[SIZZLE]

From the people I've talked to about it, including Plasticman, the 'dodgy' vinyl emulator is Final Scratch. Serrato (which plastic uses) is by all accounts and my own witnessing rock solid. When Plastic played with it in NYC nobody knew he wasn't using plates, it sounded completely like a vinyl performance.

And I do think that apart from the mastering and compression you get when cutting dubs that the format will likely be overtaken if only because it's so expensive. I play with both laptop (Max/MSP) and vinyl and use the laptop to play anything I have that's unreleased (including my own brand new tunes, which is excellent). As a producer it really makes things easier as I can literally bounce a tune backstage, walk out and play it, hear what needs work, fix it, rebounce and play the new version the next night. If I was cutting dubs that would be an expensive process which, as a working musician would be a real problem.

I think weird as it may seem Vinyl will probably last longer as a way to sell 1-2 tunes at a time to the underground DJ market. That's mainly why I still play vinyl, because there's a lot of great stuff that never makes it to other formats coming out only on 12".

I think the Serrato type solution is a good one because it allows you to do both, play new tunes you've bought on 12 as well as dubs, your own productions etc.

 

[petergunn]

i went a zulu nation type hip hop event a while back in NYC (kool herc's birthday party) and the DJ was using either Serato or Final Scratch... and considering he had to play like every break and disco break ever as well as new hip hop for the thugs in the house, it made sense... like, he would have literally had to bring 5 crates to cover the ground he did. that was the first time that Serato made sense to me...

 

[DJL]

Ive been trying to work out what direction to go in next with my dj-ing and have decided to purchase Serato Scratch after watching the tutorials below:


Overview -
Playback modes -
Visual aids -
Organizing your library -
Set up and calibration -
Mic record -
DJ CXL demonstration -

One of the things I was most impressed by was the ability to plug in just your iPod (with all your tunes on) if Serato is already installed at wherever your playing. This removes the nasty bits associated with this technology such as having to plug in the hardware and finding space for your laptop in the booth etc. If clubs took the lead and all installed this system in as broad a way as they have Technics decks I think it would be a step in a good direction.

Mixer manufacturer Rane are also shortly to release a new product which incorporates the Serato Scratch controls and hardware all into the mixer. This will allow djs to use the system without ever having to touch the laptop and therefore reduce significantly the criticism of djs looking like they are "checking their emails" etc. The laptop therefore becomes purely a visual aid and allows the dj to concentrate on mixing in the traditional sense. Here are the company giving some demos of it:


Rane TTM 57 SL Mixer -


Further details - http://www.rane.com/ttm57sl.html


I personally prefer to dj with standard vinyl and mixer but can't ignore the ability to take all your music with you on something that fits in your pocket. Hopefully other mixer manufacturers will start going down the same line of incorporating the new digital technology with the exisiting tools of the craft.


*edit* - just found a couple of better videos of the TTM 57 being demonstrated at the recent Musikmesse 2006 in Frankfurt, Germany here: http://ssl-wiki.help.bootlegs.de/index.php?title=Musikmesse2006

 

[Freakaholic]

Not entirely useful, but i thought it was interesting, and kind of to the point:

http://gadgets.qj.net/How-to-Pirate-a-Vinyl-Record/pg/49/aid/39381

hmmm....... "pirating" records?

 

[minikomi]

im really a big fan of mucking about with this

http://www.mono211.com/monoraveik/mr1200.html

setting left and right as seperate and bodging around on a mixer

 

[shudder]

three more cool clips using the monome I mentioned upthread...

http://monome.org/media/monome_daedelus.mov
http://monome.org/media/monome_portablesunsets.mov
http://146.186.186.101/~bcrabtree/monome_tehn.mov

I like the music in the second the best (actually... what other stuff sounds like that?), but the third is the best demonstration of the coolness of the device.

 

[minikomi]

very nice but would like to hear some demos which arent all swirly strings and ninja tunes reject breakbeats hehehe

 

[Victor Xray]

I'm a laptop musician (pretty much anyway) and I think that laptop performances - even when done as a DJ set - lack something essential. I don't mean that in a "keep music live" sort of reactionary way, having struggled with such attitudes from the 1980s, instead it's just a personal observation from the past few years.

 

[Slothrop]

There's been a lot of technology coming out recently that makes the concept of 'live' electronic music seem less like a contradiction in terms. In particular, software like Ableton Live and (in a less high profile way) EnergyXT allow you to really blur the lines between a DJ set, a mash up, and a live performance - you can trigger preset loops, tweak equipment, play in new phrases, layer, reorder and remix your tunes on the fly.

Since one of the things that's traditionally made dubplate cultures so exciting is the very rapid feedback loop of dubplate -> club -> audience reaction -> studio -> dubplate, is it possible that laptop performances / DJ sets could accelerate that even further? You don't have to wait for a week or a month for a succesful meme to spread through the scene, it can happen in the course of a single set. Meanwhile, the absence of records means that people don't need to have the means to press up dubplates of a new tune or a new version, but can just render it.

Damn, I'm so far ahead of the game it hurts...

Finally, the fact that more producers are playing live (usually, on laptops) means that their live sets are increasingly becoming proving grounds for potential finished product. An artist like Deadbeat, currently at work on a forthcoming album, uses version control to track the evolution of his live set, tweaking and re-saving before and after every gig. At the tour's end, the prospective tracks may appear very different than they started out, having been tuned in accordance with the responses of various club audiences, and the bulk of the work will have been done not in the recording studio, but in hotel rooms along the way.

I'm still thinking that this has potential to work in dubstep, given that that scene still has a fairly stong emphasis on playing your own unreleased dubs...