Vinyl Pressing: Tips and Specs
- Thread starter Chef Napalm
- Start date
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
Any idea how their pressing prices compare? Dubplates seem a bit steep compared to some of the others listed here.
BTW, is there anyone reading who has experience mastering for vinyl? Now would be an excellent time for some shamelss self-promotion.
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
Are you still happy with your 'plate, edward? How's it wearing?
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ramadanman
Well-known member
Transition are slightly high end prices on dubplates, few pounds more.
We got Hessle Audio 001 mastered there, and it sounds heavy.
actually I gave it to someone so I don't know.
will probably do some more soon....
for "proper" records I have just started using Optimum in Bristol, they seem very keen to do well. I had a bit of a problem with my first cut, they did a recut for free and for my next 12" they cut me a free dubplate so I could check the cut without paying for test pressings!
that's good service in my book.
as for the sound... will report back after a couple more cuts....
I haven't tried all the names mentioned here, but of the ones I have used, my favorite is Transition. One of the main attractions of Transition is the engineers there will happily advise you on your mixdown.. what areas of the mix need improving, suggestions on what to try in the future, etc. You can learn so much just by being there. Jason at Transition basically taught several leading dubstep boys how to mix their tracks. Like all studios, some days are better than others, but when they're on it they blow most of the competition out the water. Simon at the Exchange holds it down too. Especially if your mix is tight to start off with, but i don't think they cut dubs.
As for "everlasting" dubs.. they will not last forever. They're far less susceptable to crackle, but the treble wears out dissapointingly quickly, and the sound isn't as deep, as loud or as tough as acetate. And I don't want to point fingers, but there's a growing number of cheap mastering studios who really don't know what they're doing. The cheaper options are, generally, worth avoiding. The dubstudio does seem to have a lot of happy clients tho
One more thing, it is worth taking your track to Transition (or any serious cutting house) to be mastered for a digital dub... i.e. a wav for playing off laptop/cd. The mastering process will utterly transform your track, and fundamentally, an unmastered track is an unfinished one. The vinyl/acetate sound is just the icing on top.
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Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
Key point there: Proper mastering is essential. Plug-ins will not do it for you.
How are Optimum for prices, edward? Flashy website often indicates costly work.
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what does constitute proper mastering? is it the knowledge of compression, eq etc of the mastering engineer or their high-quality gear? because if the former it should theoretically be possible on a modern pc, given adequate knowledge? or a combination of both, or something extra (like tailoring to the specific requirements of the dubstep club environment)?
i heard £140 for 7" (two tracks), £190 for a 12" (four tracks i guess)
I don't know because my distributor handles it and just bills me for the total manufacturing costs... I don't feel like going through millions of emails to look it up for you, it would be quicker to ask them!
But they're definitely a lot cheaper than other places I have used, because that's the reason I have been able to restart my label after quitting a couple of years ago because of the financial impossibility of breaking even on a well-mastered well-manufactured piece of vinyl.
The best cuts I ever had were at Heathmans (they do Eminem, Britney etc) but cripplingly expensive, the Exchange is pretty pricey too.
Used to use Noel at Transfermation for years (White Stripes grammy nomination for mastering), very good guy in a minimalist sort of way - if you want your track "fixed" go to someone else but if your mix is already sounding good then he will get it on to vinyl sounding the same or better. Now he's moved somewhere else... can't find him using google :-/
But they're definitely a lot cheaper than other places I have used, because that's the reason I have been able to restart my label after quitting a couple of years ago because of the financial impossibility of breaking even on a well-mastered well-manufactured piece of vinyl.
The best cuts I ever had were at Heathmans (they do Eminem, Britney etc) but cripplingly expensive, the Exchange is pretty pricey too.
Used to use Noel at Transfermation for years (White Stripes grammy nomination for mastering), very good guy in a minimalist sort of way - if you want your track "fixed" go to someone else but if your mix is already sounding good then he will get it on to vinyl sounding the same or better. Now he's moved somewhere else... can't find him using google :-/
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
There are no tools that can do this, you need a human ear and skill. After 20 years of mixing down there's no way I would even dare to say to a label "cut that the vinyl" without using our engineer, no way in a million years.
I've always used:
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Simon+Francis
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
*Bump*
Do the Bumpty-Bump. Do the, do the Bumpty-Bump.
Do the Bumpty-Bump. Do the, do the Bumpty-Bump.
just gonna weigh and say:
a) I can heartily recommend Henry who runs www.dubstudio.co.uk - he's enthusiastic about his work, pushes the medium as far as he can, and gets great results. I've been cutting dubs with him for over a year and have never been disappointed - if I was, Henry would re-cut with no quibbles, provided he agreed that it was a poor cut. No the PVC dubs aren't the same as acetate, and don't sound the same, but I do think they sound pretty good - in fact in certain ways they sound better than acetate imo.
b) Optimum Mastering are great, a friendly & knowledgeable service - Matt in particular has earned his stripes in various cutting houses over the years and is also keen on his dubstep too. It's a nice big mastering suite to work in so you can attend the cut (recommended, especially if you know what you want out of the mastering), and as others have said ^^ they're very keen to make a good impression seeing as they're a relative newcomer. Prices are comparable to all good mastering houses like Transition and Heathmans.
Personally I'm not that keen on the Transition 'sound' - that's to say they have a particular sound as opposed to just a completely flat mixdown. To me their mastering sounds too colourful, particularly in the midranges. I'd love to to hear an A/B comparison of a tune cut by both Transition and Heathmans - the latter who I believe still lead the field in terms of mastering.
a) I can heartily recommend Henry who runs www.dubstudio.co.uk - he's enthusiastic about his work, pushes the medium as far as he can, and gets great results. I've been cutting dubs with him for over a year and have never been disappointed - if I was, Henry would re-cut with no quibbles, provided he agreed that it was a poor cut. No the PVC dubs aren't the same as acetate, and don't sound the same, but I do think they sound pretty good - in fact in certain ways they sound better than acetate imo.
b) Optimum Mastering are great, a friendly & knowledgeable service - Matt in particular has earned his stripes in various cutting houses over the years and is also keen on his dubstep too. It's a nice big mastering suite to work in so you can attend the cut (recommended, especially if you know what you want out of the mastering), and as others have said ^^ they're very keen to make a good impression seeing as they're a relative newcomer. Prices are comparable to all good mastering houses like Transition and Heathmans.
Personally I'm not that keen on the Transition 'sound' - that's to say they have a particular sound as opposed to just a completely flat mixdown. To me their mastering sounds too colourful, particularly in the midranges. I'd love to to hear an A/B comparison of a tune cut by both Transition and Heathmans - the latter who I believe still lead the field in terms of mastering.
I get my labels tracks cut by Beau at Heathmans, some 4 releases now and i have been extremely happy with each on e and would heartily recommend them, the range, depth and volume of each release has been superb.
As for actual pressing i would recommend AGR Manufacturing, based in London, they cover sleeves and what not as well.
As for costs etc, i saw earlier in this thread someone talking about £3500 return on 1000 vinyl....not from my experience
If you sold all 1000 records yourself, maybe, but good luck with that.
You will need to use a distributor and then you're looking at getting between £1.75 - £2.20 a record depending on you're individual deal and region they are sold in. The distributor will probably want some freebies to give to their buyer also so i would probably write of 100 copies once that and mailing list etc has been accounted for, so more likely nearer £1,800.
As for actual pressing i would recommend AGR Manufacturing, based in London, they cover sleeves and what not as well.
As for costs etc, i saw earlier in this thread someone talking about £3500 return on 1000 vinyl....not from my experience
If you sold all 1000 records yourself, maybe, but good luck with that.
You will need to use a distributor and then you're looking at getting between £1.75 - £2.20 a record depending on you're individual deal and region they are sold in. The distributor will probably want some freebies to give to their buyer also so i would probably write of 100 copies once that and mailing list etc has been accounted for, so more likely nearer £1,800.
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
Lots of talk about attending the cutting. What if you can't? What if I wanted my plates cut at Optimum or Heathman's or The Exchange, but I live in Canada and cannot afford the $500 + expenses to attend the cutting? What then?
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
Then you have to talk to your engineer, let them know what you want. Ours knows us so well now we don't have to turn up at all.
I bet there's some good engineers in Canada, loads of vinyl used to get made there....
Anyway, one tip I have had some success with for unattended cuts is to send a raw CD master for the guy to master from but also to send a second "guide" one where you have done your best to master it the way you want it to sound.
I always master my tracks in t-racks so I have something to listen to/play friends etc. but when it comes to mastering I know the pro guy can do it better.
But giving him my attempt at least shows him what ballpark I want it to be in.
Anyway, one tip I have had some success with for unattended cuts is to send a raw CD master for the guy to master from but also to send a second "guide" one where you have done your best to master it the way you want it to sound.
I always master my tracks in t-racks so I have something to listen to/play friends etc. but when it comes to mastering I know the pro guy can do it better.
But giving him my attempt at least shows him what ballpark I want it to be in.
Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
That's pretty much what we do, best advice I got was just get the levels right and leave enough room to let your engineer do that rest.
Chef Napalm
Lost in the Supermarket
thank you for the informations contained in this thread, they are precious and I learned a lot.
There are a few mentions to distributors but for a total rookie like me, would you be willing to give some more infos/advice about who to contact and how or what to bear in mind, once the vinyl are pressed ?
There are a few mentions to distributors but for a total rookie like me, would you be willing to give some more infos/advice about who to contact and how or what to bear in mind, once the vinyl are pressed ?