Canada J Soup
Monkey Man
Depressing enough that article, particularly towards the end. I can't help but feel like 'Theodore Dalrymple' is a charicature of a neo-Victorian misanthrope though. Even the name seems contrived.
Trance/Progressive House -- breaking news, slander, lies, etc...
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Canada J Soup
Monkey Man
Shit, I guess he *is* a real guy. 'Theodore Dalrymple' seemingly is a pen name though...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Dalrymple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Dalrymple
You are totally spot on there mate. His columns are all about his hatred for the lower class and his own theories about why their lives are supposedly miserable with all the usual excuses - drugs, alcohol, not going to the opera, etc, oh and he should know because he's a doctor...
- instead of the bleeding obvious reason: eg. erm the class system, the money trick etc.I can imagine him at this nightclub sneering at the all the patrons... and at the Scotsmen who go to bars...
Maybe they do it because, say, taking drugs/drinking, dancing and listening to music are intrinsically enjoyable...??
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Norma Snockers
Well-known member
You are totally spot on there mate. His columns are all about his hatred for the lower class and his own theories about why their lives are supposedly miserable with all the usual excuses - drugs, alcohol, not going to the opera, etc, oh and he should know because he's a doctor...
I can imagine him at this nightclub sneering at the all the patrons... and at the Scotsmen who go to bars...
Maybe they do it because, say, taking drugs/drinking, dancing and listening to music are intrinsically enjoyable...??
He's a scared bigot!
qwerty south
no use for a witticism
read his books / articles (esp the city journal ones). he is not some detatched social critic like polly toynbee in an ivory tower - he worked as a psychiatrist in a casualty ward and in a prison in birmingham (uk) and worked for a large part of his career abroad (he is retired now). i don't agree with his views on cannabis but as a former mental health nurse a lot of what he writes is spot on.
you cannot discount his views (if you know about what he is talking about).
when he refers to dancing solipsistically - it is true - my dad (70 now) "slow danced" with the opposite sex at "dances". we have lost this intimate dance - we "bump and grind"...
you cannot discount his views (if you know about what he is talking about).
when he refers to dancing solipsistically - it is true - my dad (70 now) "slow danced" with the opposite sex at "dances". we have lost this intimate dance - we "bump and grind"...
What a beautiful, fantastic line. This is the reason I'd much rather read The Spectator than The new Statesman. 1) It invariably gives me something to disagree with and get annoyed about, not sharing its politics in any way 2) Centre-right-wing writers get to have so much more fun than their counterparts. A liberal writer just wouldn't get away with a line like that.
yeah fair enough - I agree with that statement. But I don't think you can lay the blame for that at the foot of the nightclub or rave etc: it started a lot earlier than that.
And it does depend a lot on what kind of bar or club you're talking about.
Sitting at the theatre, opera or a concert can easily be called entrancing solipsistic rituals too... Are we going to disparage those activities for having those characteristics?
I used to read his Spectator column when I was in high school (someone told my dad the magazine would help me learn about politics. the world etc) and some of it did make sense but I came away from it with a sense of his not connecting with his patients and that probably is sneering at the underclass - although maybe I am probably conflating his views with the other writers of that reactionary magazine (the book reviews were usually pretty good, mind you and I did learn a lot reading it even though its political propaganda value had little lasting effect).
Had one of those strange synchronicity episodes where, having never heard of this Dalrymple guy before, immediately after reading the above article I spotted a wonderfully racist article by him in the Globe and Mail. I agree with Stelfox that the man is oddly entertaining to read, he writes quite well and you just can't help but disagree with everything he says. Man is a Grade-A asshole.
also, this is a great trance thread!
also, this is a great trance thread!
So...
Are there any Trance/Prog soundheads here at all?? No fans, lovers or defenders?
Maybe someone who fancies a bit of proper old school house, so we can meet half-way?
Jeesh... if your not listening to prog house all day long (like me) then what in blazes do you listen to all day?
Are there any Trance/Prog soundheads here at all?? No fans, lovers or defenders?
Maybe someone who fancies a bit of proper old school house, so we can meet half-way?
Jeesh... if your not listening to prog house all day long (like me) then what in blazes do you listen to all day?
ford.anglia
Member
Quote originally posted by Swears
In the late 90s when the harder end of the scene got so big it was obvious a lot of embarrassing student types would latch onto the scene. I should imagine these are just the people who when it was no longer flavour of the month in the medias eyes went back to their usual guitar driven indie crap which they never should have left in the first place.
I know if anyone had run out of the room mentioning "bad vibes" in the many groups of post club people I chilled with I don't think theyd have hard the nerve to show their face again...
The other thing is this idea that "no-one under-25 takes dance music seriously" anymore ...yes this is maybe true for media types/middle class students but among working class youth (I find it embarrassing mentioning class but in this context it seems very relevant) you'd find it hard to find anyone under 25 who's into anything else. By dance here I mean everything from hip hop/r & b thru to house/happy hardcore/hard dance/bassline/pop dance whatever. Although maybe not getting out as much as I did (well I was there on the pre-1988 dance scene so i'm obviously getting on so I've got an excuse!) I work with young people in south and west yorkshire and come from the south east and find this to be the case in these two areas here at least.
I would say that the demarcation between what middle class kids like indie/rock and what working class like to be so pronounced now that theres a good few books/articles to be written about it.
Finally someone was asking for someone to big up hard dance...well here goes...i got into the pre-house club scene hiphop/soul/funk almost by default ie it was better than the appalling guitar shit around and coming from a working class suburban south-east background it was just what everyone i knew was into. It was only with the advent of house however that I had my epiphany and was especially up for the more harder acid stuff. As the nineties progressed my tastes generally followed the harder edge of the spectrum. Ultimately for me this culminated for me in a love for hard trance and occasionally more melodic imaginative hard house.
To me theres nothing more exhilerating and exciting than a tough as hell beat banging away in the background of a massive almost classical music sounding melody something like Digital Blondes - "Antheum" or Lab4 "Concept of Love".
I just wish I'd been about 19 when this stuff came out instead of around 30!
A couple of things I'd like to say here. I attended hard dance clubs for quite a few years and was fortunate to never have to associate with these type of people. Being a bit older than the average student and never having been one may have helped here.
In the late 90s when the harder end of the scene got so big it was obvious a lot of embarrassing student types would latch onto the scene. I should imagine these are just the people who when it was no longer flavour of the month in the medias eyes went back to their usual guitar driven indie crap which they never should have left in the first place.
I know if anyone had run out of the room mentioning "bad vibes" in the many groups of post club people I chilled with I don't think theyd have hard the nerve to show their face again...
The other thing is this idea that "no-one under-25 takes dance music seriously" anymore ...yes this is maybe true for media types/middle class students but among working class youth (I find it embarrassing mentioning class but in this context it seems very relevant) you'd find it hard to find anyone under 25 who's into anything else. By dance here I mean everything from hip hop/r & b thru to house/happy hardcore/hard dance/bassline/pop dance whatever. Although maybe not getting out as much as I did (well I was there on the pre-1988 dance scene so i'm obviously getting on so I've got an excuse!) I work with young people in south and west yorkshire and come from the south east and find this to be the case in these two areas here at least.
I would say that the demarcation between what middle class kids like indie/rock and what working class like to be so pronounced now that theres a good few books/articles to be written about it.
Finally someone was asking for someone to big up hard dance...well here goes...i got into the pre-house club scene hiphop/soul/funk almost by default ie it was better than the appalling guitar shit around and coming from a working class suburban south-east background it was just what everyone i knew was into. It was only with the advent of house however that I had my epiphany and was especially up for the more harder acid stuff. As the nineties progressed my tastes generally followed the harder edge of the spectrum. Ultimately for me this culminated for me in a love for hard trance and occasionally more melodic imaginative hard house.
To me theres nothing more exhilerating and exciting than a tough as hell beat banging away in the background of a massive almost classical music sounding melody something like Digital Blondes - "Antheum" or Lab4 "Concept of Love".
I just wish I'd been about 19 when this stuff came out instead of around 30!
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The whole point of trance being simplistic and emotive is that to get into it and really feel it you have to forget everything - including that you've heard it a million times... you have to let go and reduce your self to a childlike state (hence Robert Miles 'Children'), imagine you're hearing the music for the first time... the impossibly epic beauty and euphoria and loss.
The new-agey business arises because the trance-ecstasy childlike feeling can cut pretty deep into the transcendent:
Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom."
"Taoism is a way of returning to simplicity, to the childlike state of the uncarved block."
--
The Eric Prydz remix of 1983 (!) or the Booka Shade stuff is as prog/trance as I can go without wanting to stab someone.
The new-agey business arises because the trance-ecstasy childlike feeling can cut pretty deep into the transcendent:
Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom."
"Taoism is a way of returning to simplicity, to the childlike state of the uncarved block."
--
The Eric Prydz remix of 1983 (!) or the Booka Shade stuff is as prog/trance as I can go without wanting to stab someone.
I grew up on the stuff.
Bedrocks mix of Humate on Platipus records is gorgous.
A lot of the early Platipus stuff is fantastic in fact.
I still love all the early prog house Jackpot / Guerilla stuff and all the Sasha-type pianoy stuff.
Its all about fine lines. For instance i thought the original of Binary Finary's "1999" was fantastic (still do) wheres i think all the shitty rehashes are....well.......shit.
Sharam. Ok then. When I saw the cover I was like, "cool, Squarepusher doing prog house trance". No luck. But I was really hoping for George Acosta.
So who's gonna mix GU30????????
Woebot
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