Class

[old goriot]

I agree posting that article was a waste of time. Mostly because it is a garbage article. and I'm almost 100% certain that it is a dumbed down, sensationalized rip-off of an article that appeared in Harper's last month entitled "Army of Altruists". the author argues that liberals (the professors (the author himself is one) and the political establishment that grew out of the post-war university boom) have closed off a sector of society for themselves through the system of university and internship so that it is now a luxury to be altruistic. You cannot join humanitarian organizations unless you are able to volunteer and support yourself for years at a time as an unpaid intern or student. He argues that the only avenues left to the American poor if they wish to do good in the world is to either join the church or the army.

His basic point comes down to the fact that the poor, lower classes support the Republicans because they represent the Rich while the the Liberals/democrats represent the Social Elite. the poor can conceive of themselves as one day being rich and being accepted into the Republican elite (who dont care how you talk as long as you have money), but they know would NEVER be accepted into true north-eastern liberal culture because they are lower class, do not talk properly, and do not share leisure class values (i.e. the bleeding heart liberalism). The author's point was that not only do the poor hate him and his colleagues but that the poor are completely justified in this hatred of liberals and siding with the rich. It leaves America in a pretty bad situation.

I don't agree with a lot of the Harpers peice, but it is far superior to the garbage that gets posted on counterpunch.org. that website is a joke.

 

[Edward]

Wow that's interesting.

It reminds me of living in San Francisco (I am English) and being sent out for beer and coming back with Budweiser and everyone laughing at me because I didn't buy organic locally brewed something-or-other.

I had thought I was among arty and creative people and they must be like me, but then I realised they were not.... I wasn't from the right background to be accepted.

If my little anecdotes seem trivialising, they are not supposed to be, I am interested in the experiences of individuals and moments that make you aware of a bigger picture...

 

[Mr. Tea]

To be fair, though, Bud is shite.

 

[Guybrush]

His basic point comes down to the fact that the poor, lower classes support the Republicans because they represent the Rich while the the Liberals/democrats represent the Social Elite. the poor can conceive of themselves as one day being rich and being accepted into the Republican elite (who dont care how you talk as long as you have money), but they know would NEVER be accepted into true north-eastern liberal culture because they are lower class, do not talk properly, and do not share leisure class values (i.e. the bleeding heart liberalism). The author's point was that not only do the poor hate him and his colleagues but that the poor are completely justified in this hatred of liberals and siding with the rich. It leaves America in a pretty bad situation.

Interesting. It certainly seems the Republicans are aware of this view and exploit it in full.

At first, I thought British Dissensians were unhealthily obsessed with class, but then I gathered, ‘If everyone in Britain is equally obsessed with it, it is a problem.’

 

[hundredmillionlifetimes]

All of which is terrible and i would have thought pretty obvious to most people on here, and also pretty irrelevant to the thread......

As you make no attempt to actually reference the post to which you are supposedly responding, we will assume your knee-jerk pomposity refers to the adolescent nonsense being posted on this thread, with the majority of posters here seeing class privilege as something to aspire towards rather than as a destructive pathology [And BTW, my own post is most definitely not obvious to anyone posting here, which should be an elementary insight for anyone who glances at the posts on this forum, and was intended to interrupt the self-absorbed, narcissistic garbage being posted on this thread and which you are all too eager to defend ...].

I agree posting that article was a waste of time. Mostly because it is a garbage article. and I'm almost 100% certain that it is a dumbed down, sensationalized rip-off of an article that appeared in Harper's last month entitled "Army of Altruists"...

You'd be wrong [ Army of Altruists article] ... but even bothering to respond to ignorant buffoons like you is a complete waste of time.

 

[swears]

@hundredmillionlifetimes:

Ouch.

If you have such a low opinion of this place, then why waste your time posting here at all?
I'm sure there are countless other forums that don't deal with class in a serious, academic manner. Why not post on one that does?

 

[old goriot]

As you make no attempt to actually reference the post to which you are supposedly responding, we will assume your knee-jerk pomposity refers to the adolescent nonsense being posted on this thread, with the majority of posters here seeing class privilege as something to aspire towards rather than as a destructive pathology [And BTW, my own post is most definitely not obvious to anyone posting here, which should be an elementary insight for anyone who glances at the posts on this forum, and was intended to interrupt the self-absorbed, narcissistic garbage being posted on this thread and which you are all too eager to defend ...].



You'd be wrong [ Army of Altruists article] ... but even bothering to respond to ignorant buffoons like you is a complete waste of time.

In what way am I wrong? The editors of counterpunch obviously read Harper's. It is a certainty that they read that article. then they post an article that takes the basic proposition of the article and sensationalizes it. In what way is any of this incorrect, please elucidate... or just hurl insults, whichever suits you best padraig

 

[swears]

to be fair...

Hmmm...maybe we could do with a kick up the arse though, we do talk a lot of inconsequential bullshit on here (myself included). People simply stating what they perceive their class to be isn't much of a discussion.

 

[tht]

At first, I thought British Dissensians were unhealthily obsessed with class, but then I gathered, ‘If everyone in Britain is equally obsessed with it, it is a problem.’

the problem is the 'obsession' (hyperbolic, anyway) or the system?

 

[hundredmillionlifetimes]

If you have such a low opinion of this place, then why waste your time posting here at all?

It is those who post garbage here who have a low opinion of this forum [or is that too rational for you to comprehend?]

I'm sure there are countless other forums that don't deal with class in a serious, academic manner. Why not post on one that does?

That don't ...? Yes of course, countless. Go join one ...

 

[swears]

Yes, that don't. Why pick this one to criticise?
99% of posts on forums probably fall under the category of "garbage".

Actually, let me rephrase that, what draws you to this place? You think it has potential?

 

[hundredmillionlifetimes]

Yes, that don't. Why pick this one to criticise?

I was criticising particular posters here [who unmediatedly confuse themselves with the forum itself].

99% of posts on forums probably fall under the category of "garbage".

And you'd like to increase it to 100% ...

 

[swears]

I was criticising particular posters here [who unmediatedly confuse themselves with the forum itself].

In this thread: http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=4258

You refer to dissensus as "this politically, socially, and artistically conservative forum", without mentioning any individual posters.

So again, why post here?

 

[Edward]

to Hundredmillion....

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
I think your post is a lot more pompous than mine. I don't why you are getting so upset. I just thought it would've been better to make a new thread to discuss the issue you brought up.

If you think this thread is narcissistic or just plain uninteresting, no need to post.

Perhaps I was quick to assume that because the gist of what you posted was obvious to me that it would automatically be ovious to others here.

the majority of posters here seeing class privilege as something to aspire towards rather than as a destructive pathology

I think this is a lot more interesting and relevant to the direction I hoped the thread would go in.
Would you like to say more about this?

 

[Mr. Tea]

BREAKING NEWS: Toff goes to war for fun!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6383747.stm

 

[bun-u]

I have a lower working class background – stemming from the fact my Dad brought three of us up on his low factory wage – I remember feeling poor amongst other working class people in Coventry (though my Irish parents came from an even poorer background). With a lot of luck I’ve ended up educated and living largely within a middle class context, the change has probably leaving me with some ‘issues’/angst (probably exacerbated when middle class people fail to acknowledge class to be an issue at all).

 

[Mr. Tea]

Talking about 'issues' and 'angst' sounds pretty middle-class to me...

 

[tht]

Talking about 'issues' and 'angst' sounds pretty middle-class to me...

are we to think that the poetic arts and constitutions are available to any other than the enlightened classes? can the gypsies understand their own pathos?

 

[swears]

are we to think that the poetic arts and constitutions are available to any other than the enlightened classes? can the gypsies understand their own pathos?

But how "enlightened" are the middle classes really? Or are they just towing a standard liberal/social democratic party line?

 

[IdleRich]

"But how "enlightened" are the middle classes really? And to what degree are they just towing a standard liberal/social democratic party line?"

Slight digression but I ask because I'm not sure myself - is it "tow the line" or "toe the line"? I always thought the latter because I assumed it was to put your feet by some kind of line telling you where to stand but I'm not certain.
Anyway, I guess I'm from a background about as middle-class as you can get. I grew up in small village in Oxfordshire, both my parents went to university and I would say that they are fairly comfortably off. I went to a normal (ie not private) school which was local but I think was considered fairly good.
I don't really know what class means in some ways but if it's to do with earnings then I have almost certainly moved downwards as I don't earn very much. That seems a weird definition though, I remember when I was younger hearing Noel Gallagher saying how it was best to be working class and my immediate thought was ""well, his kids won't be" - or will they, I don't know?