Virginia Gun Massacre

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crackerjack

Well-known member
zhao said:
this also describes the people who makes most of the pop music we love - or atleast the image they sport. New-Order? The Smiths? The Cure? (just 3 similar examples from one scene, don't have time to list the countless ones from other scenes and time periods) how ubiquitous is the lonely ostracised figure in pop idolatry?



and this would be anyone who listens to music written about alienation, anger, and troubles with girls.



ah ok. crackjack is so well adjusted to this society that he never feels sad or inadequate. he is free from neurosis, is never lonely, and is happy all the time. and I'm sure he doesn't listen to angry or sad music either.
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What is there to say to such seismic crap? It really shouldn't be necessary to point out that the difference between experiencing all those feelings you talk about and actually buying a gun and actually pointing it at someone's head and actually pulling the trigger and then actually doing it again and again and again isn't the flick of a switch or a bad hair day, it's fucking chasmic. Your comparison is like standing on opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean and saying we're in the same place because we're both by the Atlantic.
I've experienced most of those emotions at some time or other (hell, I'm ginger AND started receding early - life's a bitch!), but there my similarities with this killer end.

If you genuinely think there's next to nothing separating you (which I VERY much doubt) from him then I sincerely hope the FBI have your number.

Edit: And have you ever actually heard those bands? I don't get that from them at all.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Gavin said:
It doesn't start happening all the time overnight. These types of incidents will become much more common as more people realize that they've been lied to their whole lives about how much freedom, social mobility, and happiness this society will provide for them. This is just the beginning, and I won't be as shocked as perhaps I would like to be when these incidents occur almost as frequent as car bombs in Iraq.
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Groan. Never mind the Ballards.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
‘Mr. Brownstone’, a play by Cho Seung-Hui
Delightful stuff.
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Well, it's a bit weird but that's all. With hindsight you can read something in to it but I'm sure that a lot worse has been written by perfectly well adjusted people.

http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/cg...?entry_id=6858
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That on the other hand is pretty scary.

"1. This is about an afternoon’s worth of Iraqi killings"
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True, but I think it's only natural that something like this is going to get more media attention and affect people in a different way. I mean, I don't think it's racism, if there were fifty US soldiers killed in the war-zone that is Iraq it wouldn't be so weird as this which comes completely out of the blue and seems to be totally counter to everything that people intuitively believe. Of course the fact that it's in the US instead of half-way round the world helps as well.

Re gun control. It seems obvious that in a country where guns are not so easily available a loner who snaps like this won't be able to kill so many people. Banning guns would not solve the underlying problem but surely it would limit the damage done by people like this while society works on a solution for that?
The argument that psychos use illegal guns is disingenuous because even if they are using illegal guns the culture of the US where guns are more normal means that it is easier for someone to obtain an illegal gun, perhaps just by walking in to a shop and providing a false ID.
The argument that if the staff and pupils all had guns there would have been less people killed is also fallacious because - while possibly true as far as it goes - it is only considering the one incident and does not consider the overall implications of every teacher and pupil carrying guns in their every day life.
On the other hand, it seems that gun culture is so heavily ingrained in US society that there is very little to be done about it so maybe it's not worth focussing on that aspect so much.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"You can say that again.

http://instapundit.com/archives2/004310.php

*huuuuuuuge groan*"
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Perfect example of the huge gulf between the different schools of thought on this. Right at the start of the thread John Eden (I think) mentioned that someone had used that argument and held it up as an example of obviously crazy-thinking - it turns out that that was far from an isolated voice, it seems to be a fairly common reaction in the US but it's scary that they are already passing laws on that basis.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Gavin said:
It doesn't start happening all the time overnight. These types of incidents will become much more common as more people realize that they've been lied to their whole lives about how much freedom, social mobility, and happiness this society will provide for them.
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Eh? How idiotically naive would you have to be to expect society to 'provide happiness' for you?
The only person who can make you happy is you, and your close friends and loved ones.
 
M

mms

sometimes
interesting blog from guy who writes about how media replicates these events - and the instances when copycat events arise, also it suggests methodology that relates to wider political events and respect for anti-american terrorism, hitler etc..
this virginia guy seems to be trying to inspire something more, ' i did it for my brothers and sisters etc..'

http://copycateffect.blogspot.com/
 
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Z

zhao

there are no accidents
of COURSE making manic music and rage killing is like apples and organges.

but you can not deny that a lot of art expresses the nowhere-to-turn desperation of modern life, suicidal loneliness, of intense hatred for society, even extreme misanthropy -- the same feelings which drove this guy over the edge. the same feelings we have all felt.

i give you some Robert Smith lyrics:

A hand in my mouth
A life spills into the flowers
We all look so perfect
As we all fall down
In an electric glare
The old man cracks with age
She found his last picture
In the ashes of the fire
An image of the queen
Echoes round the sweating bed
Sour yellow sounds inside my head
In books
And films
And in life
And in heaven
The sound of slaughter
As your body turns

But it's too late
But it's too late

One more day like today and I'll kill you
A desire for flesh
And real blood
I'll watch you drown in the shower
Pushing my life through your open eyes

I must fight this sickness
Find a cure
I must fight this sickness
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C

crackerjack

Well-known member
and i give you some Morrissey lyrics

I said Charles, don't you ever crave
To appear on the front of the Daily Mail
Dressed in your Mother's bridal veil ?
Oh ...
And so, I checked all the registered historical facts
And I was shocked into shame to discover
How I'm the 18th pale descendant
Of some old queen or other


Oh, has the world changed, or have I changed ?
Oh has the world changed, or have I changed ?


Some 9-year old tough who peddles drugs
I swear to God
I swear : I never even knew what drugs were
Oh ...
So, I broke into the palace
With a sponge and a rusty spanner
She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
True - but how much art expresses joy, wonder, love, spiritual ecstasy or simple contentment?

It irritates me how fashionable it is these days to be seen as depressed or 'messed-up' in certain social circles (generally white, middle-class teenagers with very normal home lives). That's not to say music that's depressing 'in a good way' doesn't have its place - Joy Division, let's say (and The Cure, as you point out). Also, it struck me the other day that if Nirvana were around these days they'd probably be described as 'emo'. :(
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
Zhao, obviously I understand where you're coming from with this. But people can choose to wallow in these feelings, or they can absorb the great music that reflects them and draw strength from hearing their own adolescent misery articluated and musing on waht can be achieved in spite of, or even because of it. Then you get those, like the killer, whose wallowing, combined with his own mental illness, lead to something like this.
 
Z

zhao

there are no accidents
i would like to see you two appearing on the front of the Daily Mail, dressed in your Mother's bridal veils. :D
 
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