proto dubstep

[UFO over easy]

I would partially agree - although he played no role in the emergence of the scene, some of his stuff has a lot in common with dubstep. That's one of the reasons these tunes feel redundant to me.

Out of interest, are you into dubstep at all? Or drum and bass, for that matter?

 

[Martin Dust]

I would partially agree - although he played no role in the emergence of the scene, some of his stuff has a lot in common with dubstep. That's one of the reasons these tunes feel redundant to me.

Out of interest, are you into dubstep at all? Or drum and bass, for that matter?

Surely that's a paradox

Yeah, I have a large collection of Dubstep and make out to the odd night but I'm pretty worried about it at the moment because I think it's about to eat it's own head...

 

[UFO over easy]

Surely that's a paradox

In what sense? There's plenty of music that sounds like dubstep. What makes dubstep unique isn't how it sounds necessarily, but that it's a new scene. New raves, a new wave of producers with a new perspective, and a new group of fans. Scorn didn't have anything to do with that, even if he sounds a bit like Vex'd or Loefah sometimes. Same way that Muslimgauze doesn't make dubstep even though sometimes he sounds like Shackleton.


I only asked if you liked dubstep and drum and bass because I have a few (dumb) friends who, for example, are pretty prejudiced against drum and bass, but somehow feel like they're 'allowed' to like Quoit because Mick Harris made it, even though it's not radically different.

 

[Martin Dust]

In what sense? There's plenty of music that sounds like dubstep. What makes dubstep unique isn't how it sounds necessarily, but that it's a new scene. New raves, a new wave of producers with a new perspective, and a new group of fans. .

That would turn into a massive rant and I really don't want to

Scorn didn't have anything to do with that, even if he sounds a bit like Vex'd or Loefah sometimes.

What???? Read that back to yourself. Scorn sound like Vex'd <giggle>

Same way that Muslimgauze doesn't make dubstep even though sometimes he sounds like Shackleton.

Your missing the point fella...

I only asked if you liked dubstep and drum and bass because I have a few (dumb) friends who, for example, are pretty prejudiced against drum and bass, but somehow feel like they're 'allowed' to like Quoit because Mick Harris made it, even though it's not radically different.

No worries, I like what I like - I don't really stick to one thing myself. But I enjoy learning and getting switched on to new things and ideas...

 

[UFO over easy]

What???? Read that back to yourself. Scorn sound like Vex'd


Your missing the point fella...

nah, you're missing mine. I know Scorn was making his stuff before dubstep, but that's not the point. Dubstep emerged from UKG, and when benga and skream were making their first beats in croydon, they were being influenced by horsepower and el-b, not mick harris. Even though arguably some Scorn sounds more like dubstep's current incarnation than El-B, would you deny that El-B was a bigger influence?

people always bring up disparate proto dubstep influences - early Scorn for example - but to me the influences often need loosely separating into those that are causally linked to the dubstep scene/sound, and those that co-incidentally sound like dubstep in retrospect, but had no direct effect on building the sound.

 

[Martin Dust]

nah, you're missing mine.?

How rubbish are we

 

[UFO over easy]

we're awesome

 

[Martin Dust]

I take your point tho The studio is calling, more tomorrow I guess.

 

[zhao]

pretty worried about it at the moment because I think it's about to eat it's own head...

do you feel like no new ideas have presented themselves lately?

 

[mistersloane]

That Macro Dub Infection compilation and the first Mo Wax one are responsible for dubstep, hence it's rigidity, and I refute the idea that the UK garage scene was pure, and that people weren't going to see Scorn support the Young Gods or whatever, that there are these communities of people, certainly in London, who only know about one type of music, the 'which sort of music do you like, soul or jazz funk' kind of people, not nowadays.

 

[Blackdown]

That Macro Dub Infection compilation and the first Mo Wax one are responsible for dubstep, hence it's rigidity, and I refute the idea that the UK garage scene was pure, and that people weren't going to see Scorn support the Young Gods or whatever, that there are these communities of people, certainly in London, who only know about one type of music, the 'which sort of music do you like, soul or jazz funk' kind of people, not nowadays.

are you mad? i think you're confusing your own (highly musically educated) perspective with other people's. i've lost count of times in interviews when i say to people 'oh your tune reminded me of XYZ Producer beyond their genre' and they look blankly. I was always really excited that El-B knew who Basic Channel and UR were back in the day, because most garage heads didnt!

So much of these London scenes are communities, so producers that other producers know are the ones they know from common raves or through friends or shared studio space. When the social connection - i.e. from Mick Harris to Skream - becomes more distant than the musical one, often there is no connection.

And so this is why i value clubs like Plastic People, so you can get nights like Forward>> where people like Shoreditch art designers can meet Skepta, Basement Jaxx can meet Youngsta, pirate radio DJs can meet photographers...

 

[john eden]

I think trying to draw literal family trees with this stuff with actual connections between people is much less satisfying than talking about general trends or "currents".

 

[Edward]

Yeah Mistersloane is wrong this time I think.
I'm sure a lot of the "newer" purely dubstep producers come from an eclectic background but the first lot like Benga, Skream, Plastician, MarkOne etc.... I don't think so.

I have DJed with Plastician a few times in his "plasticman" day and he told me he only knew about garage and breaks and a few drum and bass tunes. Never heard of Front 242, TackHead, Scorn or any of the other influences people were crediting to him.
Actually I think this ignorance helped him to be a unique producer. When you've heard too much music it can become petrifying - it seems that much harder and that much more important to be original.

 

[Martin Dust]

do you feel like no new ideas have presented themselves lately?

There are people out there pushing and trying new stuff - adding to the mix but for the most part adding horror film samples and going Wub,wub, wuuuuub, wub for six minutes just isn't doing it for me (crass example but I'll bet someone is doing it) and a lot of what I'm hearing seems to be Dubstep by numbers.

 

[Martin Dust]

are you mad? i think you're confusing your own (highly musically educated) perspective with other people's. i've lost count of times in interviews when i say to people 'oh your tune reminded me of XYZ Producer beyond their genre' and they look blankly. I was always really excited that El-B knew who Basic Channel and UR were back in the day, because most garage heads didnt!

So much of these London scenes are communities, so producers that other producers know are the ones they know from common raves or through friends or shared studio space. When the social connection - i.e. from Mick Harris to Skream - becomes more distant than the musical one, often there is no connection.

And so this is why i value clubs like Plastic People, so you can get nights like Forward>> where people like Shoreditch art designers can meet Skepta, Basement Jaxx can meet Youngsta, pirate radio DJs can meet photographers...

I think you are correct and I've seen those blank stares but the sooner it breaks out of it's box the better for me because I'd hate it to make the same mistakes as UKG. The garage and speed garage clubs up here are massive but nothing has really changed in 10 years, I can still sing you the bassline to most of the tracks and to be fair it's the same with the crusty techno clubs (Stay Up Forever) - nostalgic drug taking...

 

[john eden]

adding horror film samples and going Wub,wub, wuuuuub, wub for six minutes just isn't doing it for me.

LOL.

Despite me being quite down on dubstep in general there are some interesting people involved and some of the music is great. There, I've said it.

There is a weak link between Macro Dub Infection and dubstep in that Kevin Martin compiled them. Plus Scorn and Iration Steppas were both included and are now hovering somewhere above (or is it tunnelling underneath?) the dubstep milieu.

 

[Martin Dust]

LOL.

Despite me being quite down on dubstep in general there are some interesting people involved and some of the music is great. There, I've said it.

There is a weak link between Macro Dub Infection and dubstep in that Kevin Martin compiled them. Plus Scorn and Iration Steppas were both included and are now hovering somewhere above (or is it tunnelling underneath?) the dubstep milieu.

Absolutely, there's a few people I follow on the scene and there's still lots of ideas going on, you just have to swim through the copycats to get there.

 

[mistersloane]

are you mad? i think you're confusing your own (highly musically educated) perspective with other people's. i've lost count of times in interviews when i say to people 'oh your tune reminded me of XYZ Producer beyond their genre' and they look blankly. I was always really excited that El-B knew who Basic Channel and UR were back in the day, because most garage heads didnt!

So much of these London scenes are communities, so producers that other producers know are the ones they know from common raves or through friends or shared studio space. When the social connection - i.e. from Mick Harris to Skream - becomes more distant than the musical one, often there is no connection.

And so this is why i value clubs like Plastic People, so you can get nights like Forward>> where people like Shoreditch art designers can meet Skepta, Basement Jaxx can meet Youngsta, pirate radio DJs can meet photographers...

lol my bad. But how about the guys that run the record shop they all hang out in?

 

[john eden]

i am not allowed to say dubstep also descends from breaks, because its only father is UKG

Isn't that because -

a) none of the original dubstep producers were, or will admit to having been, influenced by breaks
b) a certain ex-poster of this parish engaged in some lengthy and extremely stupid arguments to that effect, which has annoyed people somewhat.

so you can of course "say" it, but people might get annoyed.

Personally I don't really give a toss.

 

[UFO over easy]

I refute the idea that the UK garage scene was pure, and that people weren't going to see Scorn support the Young Gods or whatever

If you trace the progression of dubstep through it's roots, through velvet rooms, through big apple and the first DMZ releases, it makes perfect sense. They've arrived at a similar aesthetic through different sources. Not rocket science..