Sarko Wins

Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
vimothy said:
The free market is necessarily more efficient because that's its nature. Nationalised British industries like the railways are in a mess because of ridiculous bureaucracy - the exact opposite of good liberal economics.
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Efficient *at what*? Providing a service to consumers? Or making money for shareholders?

The free-market argument that privatised industry is more efficient because there's competition completely breaks down when you're talking about public services or public transport, when there is (very often) a complete monopoly exerted by one company in any given field over the people who live in a given area. If I decide Thames Water is giving me poor value for money I can't just decide to switch supplier to Yorkshire Water instead, can I?
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
why would anyone want a hideous mess of an inefficient industry? I don't think any free marketers are arguing for that.
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They're not arguing for it, obviously. But the free marketers first and last loyalty is to their profit margin. That's fine when you're making chocolate, beer, clothing or movies, but there are many industries that are far too fundamental for that. Most of the UK ones have deteriorated under privatisation, they just post bigger profits.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Efficient *at what*? Providing a service to consumers? Or making money for shareholders?
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The two are inter-related.

The free-market argument that privatised industry is more efficient because there's competition completely breaks down when you're talking about public services or public transport, when there is (very often) a complete monopoly exerted by one company in any given field over the people who live in a given area. If I decide Thames Water is giving me poor value for money I can't just decide to switch supplier to Yorkshire Water instead, can I?
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A monopoly is not a free market. It's the same with nationalised industry - if you don't like it, tough.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
vimothy said:
The two are inter-related.
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Quite: the more cash is being siphoned off to line shareholders' pockets, the less there is to spend on the service demanded by consumers, no?
vimothy said:
A monopoly is not a free market.
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You don't say! That's *exactly* my point: they're not the same, so an argument in favour of privatised industry in one area does not apply to the other.

Of course a nationalised rail company (for example) offers just as much a monopoly as a privately-owned one; the difference being the only ostensible purpose of the nationalised company is to get people from A to B, NOT to make megabucks for the directors and their investors.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"I'm not sure if anyone is saying that."
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Not here but that's all you read in the papers.

"The free-market argument that privatised industry is more efficient because there's competition completely breaks down when you're talking about public services or public transport, when there is (very often) a complete monopoly exerted by one company in any given field over the people who live in a given area. If I decide Thames Water is giving me poor value for money I can't just decide to switch supplier to Yorkshire Water instead, can I?"
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Yeah exactly. The rail network is such a mess now, first there is the lack of competition and the fact that there is no incentive to provide transport to places that aren't profitable. Also, with different companies owning the trains, the track etc, the whole thing is so complicated that it's impossible to get a straight answer (or even the same answer twice) for the cheapest and best route plus when things go wrong they all blame each other. I'm sure that if it was centrally owned there could be a more integrated plan to rescue a service which is slowly dying (and getting more expensive).
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Damn - the free market argument probably demands a massive answer - or non. And I'm off home. See you commies later. ;)
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
vimothy said:
Damn - the free market argument probably demands a massive answer - or non. And I'm off home. See you commies later. ;)
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I've now been called a 'fascist' and a 'commie' on consecutive days. I *heart* Dissensus.
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
The end is nigh
Sarkozy now appears doomed by scandal
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Headline in The Times (can't access the story anymore:()

How serious is this scandal and will it really prevent re-election (which is due when?)? And of the Socialists are screwed, as people seem to have ben saying for years, cui bono? Villepin?
 
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Stuntrock

Active member
Well. It is serious, really serious. And Sarkozy is now a joke in France with more than 70% of population against his policies/disatisfied by him.
His politics have been disastrous as in mindblowingly egoistic. Woerth (labour minister) who's now at the center of the scandals (many frauds, illegal interests and helping out "friends") is symptomatic of the whole system. Sarkozy is like a WASP version of Berlusconi these days. Ha always was though : reading the beginings of this thread is really surprising as anybody with a little knowledge of french politics history knkew he was a catastrophy.
 
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