JG Ballard "Cocaine Nights"

jonny mugwump

exotic pylon
I'll have to look for that Baudrillard essay though...


To crassly summarise at work with no book to hand, Baudrillard sees Crash as inherently amoral and a mutated development of ideas like the Mcluhanite extension of the body. Crash reflects a deconsturction of the body- so not extension but disruption and therefore post-human.

This can in turn reflect on the early 'disaster' novels. Protagonists in such situations would normally be in flight to escape. Ballards heroes always crash headlong into the deterritorialisation of their environments- commiting violence to themselves and attempting to emerge as something different.

Which begs the question of Ballards intro, appearing long after original publication, as briliant as it is.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
in my experience (not first hand i hasten to add) that's the one thing that "normal" society doesn't tell you- that crime is a hell of a lot of fun for the people perpertrating it. that that's one of the key reasons why people do it.

it's like how they never told you drugs made you feel fantastic!

I will incriminate myself and say that you're right, crime is exceptionally fun and the rush of chemicals it sends flooding through your brain is a huge reason why people do bad things. Not the only reason, but a very good one.

I sometimes think of it as an evolutionary advantage in humans--although risky, often the highest risk behavior ends in the highest possible payoffs. Our brains reward us for doing "bad" things as a way to make sure humans will take risks and keep the species thriving. It's a great way to keep humans self-interested and focused on survival, anyway. And it's the same mechanism orgasm works on.

I definitely want to pick this book up...
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I sometimes think of it as an evolutionary advantage in humans--although risky, often the highest risk behavior ends in the highest possible payoffs. Our brains reward us for doing "bad" things as a way to make sure humans will take risks and keep the species thriving. It's a great way to keep humans self-interested and focused on survival, anyway. And it's the same mechanism orgasm works on.

But then a lot of people report doing really bad (possibly criminal) things for the sheer adrenalin buzz, and not for any associated payoffs, don't they? Like the billionaire businessman who still launches a new venture, even when money has ceased to be the reason (aside from as a numerical 'counter' in a high-stakes 'game')?
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Exactly--the buzz itself is the immediately payoff, anything else is gravy. When it comes to high risk behavior. People gamble for the buzz--if they win money, great! If they don't, they still got the buzz.

That mechanism is a great way to get people to do things. It's the same way orgasm keeps people having sex.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Nowadays, unprotected sex counts as a high risk behavior, one of the highest risk behaviors, so you've got the triple "incentive" to do it from a standpoint of pseudo-neurology ;)
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"I will incriminate myself and say that you're right, crime is exceptionally fun and the rush of chemicals it sends flooding through your brain is a huge reason why people do bad things. Not the only reason, but a very good one."
All true but I think (at best) tangential to the complaints I was making about the book.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
All true but I think (at best) tangential to the complaints I was making about the book.

Which (I think) is that he writes cyphers rather than characters, yes? This much is true, although it didn't spoil my enjoyment of Cocaine Nights. But it might explain why the law of diminishing returns set in so quickly with its successors.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
Haven't read the book, so I'd have to reserve judgment on it. Ballard is someone I've never gotten into, but maybe I tried when I was too young to get it? Looking at what people write *about* Ballard, I think he's worth another shot.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Which (I think) is that he writes cyphers rather than characters, yes? This much is true, although it didn't spoil my enjoyment of Cocaine Nights. But it might explain why the law of diminishing returns set in so quickly with its successors."
Well, two things, what you just said and also that I don't agree with his big ideas. I mean, I'm not disagreeing that crime can be fun, I'm disagreeing with his grand idea (if I'm reading it correctly) that crime is the most fundamental type of fun and is more necessary to society than any of the other ways that people can get thrills.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I actually didn't like Cocaine Nights that much when I read it, as though it was a fun enough read, I felt it was another reworking through of a recurring obsession for him. As for it's roots - to get all amateur psychoanalyst for a moment, I'd suspect his ideas about human nature are hugely shaped by his childhood experiences in Shanghai. He dramatises a lot of this is Empire of the Sun, which is an amazing read. It details a time when the superstructure of society had completely fallen away for a while, and all that is left to do is scrabblearound in the ruins. Apparently, he was living wild for a while and then was interned in a POW camp with his parents. God only knows what the dislocation must've been like coming back to England after that. And being sent to public school!

There's a quote from him I can't quite remember - it goes something like "if you've lived through a period of complete social breakdown you view basic human nature very differently". I've completely mangled that but hopefully you get the gist. This sense of breakdown, implict violence, this was his experience at a formative time which is why it reoccurs so much for him. It's also where a lot of his personal iconography comes from - empty swimming pools and downed aircraft.

Another interesting interpretation re. EoftheSun and Ballard's writing in general - I found it written in a very detailed way, but almost affectless - the protagonist doesn't really experience emotion, distress etc. It's very curious, and a noticeable stylistic tic with Ballard. I wonder to what degree this is connected with the painfulness of his experiences?
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Aha! Wikipedia sez:

I
don't think you can go through the experience of war without one's perceptions of the world being forever changed. The reassuring stage set that everyday reality in the suburban west presents to us is torn down; you see the ragged scaffolding, and then you see the truth beyond that, and it can be a frightening experience.
 
I think you have to keep in mind that Ballard still is some kind of science-fiction author, but unlike most other sf the sciences he's fantasizing about are often not some kind of technology but sociology and psychology. His writing about the role of violence in our society is not an accurate analysis of the present, he's picking things up and fantasizing about how these could mutate in the immediate future.
 

D84

Well-known member
I finally got around to reading Kingdom Come and I think of all the comments on Ballard's attitude to violence etc, while I already agreed with everyone else's posts in this thread, I now think mine is possibly the least convincing...

DannyL:
Apparently, he was living wild for a while and then was interned in a POW camp with his parents. God only knows what the dislocation must've been like coming back to England after that. And being sent to public school!

Yeah I get the feeling though that it's not just his war-time experiences of Shanghai but also the pre-war ones. Like many people who go to England from the colonies I get the feeling he found the mother-country a big disappointment.. I can imagine the free and easy lifestyle of pre-war Shanghai must have made England rather disappointing...

Didn't he join the Canadian Air Force at some point?
 
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tryptych

waiting for a time
Exactly--the buzz itself is the immediately payoff, anything else is gravy. When it comes to high risk behavior. People gamble for the buzz--if they win money, great! If they don't, they still got the buzz.

That mechanism is a great way to get people to do things. It's the same way orgasm keeps people having sex.

Not everyone though.. certain types of people.

The classic experiment is the one with two decks of cards, with randomised cards giving you monetary bonuses or penalties. One deck is stacked so that the odds are such that over time, you will get a steady increase in money. The other deck gives higher payoffs, but is stacked overall that you will loose money.

Subjects who tend towards compulsive gambling behaviour gravitate towards the second deck, "normal" subjects to the first, but both subconsciously - i.e. they are unable to say why they choose one deck over another more frequently.
 

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Revive this one...

Just read The Drowned World and loved it. However, having now read five of his books (that, Crash, High Rise, Super Cannes and Cocaine Nights) I'm beginning to wonder how many more I actually need to read. The specific details, the texture of the drowned world, the heat and so on were fantastic, but I couldn't help thinking it was essentially the same book as Crash and High Rise (even down to the relationship between the faintly nervous doctor and the powerful, amoral nemesis) but with a different setting, and had a lot of similarities in terms of its basic drive (and the relationship between the faintly nervous doctor and the powerful, amoral nemesis) with Super Cannes and Cocaine Nights, albeit with the reversal that it's about violence in a collapsing society rather than violence holding together an otherwise sterile society.

Have I just happened to pick his five most similar books or am I going to get diminishing returns from now on?
 
If you've not read The Atrocity Exhibition, you've got the best yet to come. Then there's the memoirs which are a different kind of thing if you're interested...
 

jd_

Well-known member
Revive this one...

Just read The Drowned World and loved it. However, having now read five of his books (that, Crash, High Rise, Super Cannes and Cocaine Nights) I'm beginning to wonder how many more I actually need to read. The specific details, the texture of the drowned world, the heat and so on were fantastic, but I couldn't help thinking it was essentially the same book as Crash and High Rise (even down to the relationship between the faintly nervous doctor and the powerful, amoral nemesis) but with a different setting, and had a lot of similarities in terms of its basic drive (and the relationship between the faintly nervous doctor and the powerful, amoral nemesis) with Super Cannes and Cocaine Nights, albeit with the reversal that it's about violence in a collapsing society rather than violence holding together an otherwise sterile society.

Have I just happened to pick his five most similar books or am I going to get diminishing returns from now on?

I think Unlimited Dream Company, Crystal World and Concrete Island are definitely worth reading. They are different from the ones you mention too.
 

polystyle

Well-known member
Jg

Best wishes JG Ballard
Found out yesterday he was diagnosed cancer 2006.
Got his autobio out and not gone yet ...
 

luka

Well-known member
In June of 1999, NYSE Chairman Dick Grassl travelled to Columbia and met with the leader of the FARC rebels controlling the southern third of the country. His trip was reported in the Associate Press, and, remarkably, the AP openly stated that Grassl had asked the Columbian rebels to invest their profits in Wall Street.
 
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