global financial crash yay!

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bob effect

somnambulist
vimothy said:
I don't disagree with that, and would not want to dispute peoples' free right to protest even if I did, but what I wonder is, with so many different agendas represented at these protests (as there always is), how is it possible to make a coherent point? And, even if it is possible to make a coherent point, what could it be?

Not to sound dismissive -- I've been on protests, and they have always seemed to be as much about the event itself -- the day out, the music, the dressing up, the banners -- than any underlying political message. This is not necessarily a bad thing, IMO, but it is a thing. I guess that you could contrast a protest against the war in Iraq with a protest against globalisation, or neoliberal capitalist greed. I think there is a qualitative difference there -- one is quite concrete, the other, more nebulous.
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So essentially one is a single issue and the other and overlapping collection of several interrelated issues. And your point is what? That single issues are easier to make coherent points about than several interrelated issues, especially through the medium of mass protest? Really?
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
When you say it, it sounds straightforward, but I don't think it's straightforward at all. At least, it's not something that lends itself to protest -- productive protest -- particularly well. As a social event I'm sure it will be a lot of fun.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
If anyone is interested (it is quite a long essay), here's what a former chief economist of the IMF thinks about the financial crisis. It's probaboly not that dissimilar to most people here:
If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform.​
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
vimothy said:
When you say it, it sounds straightforward, but I don't think it's straightforward at all. At least, it's not something that lends itself to protest -- productive protest -- particularly well. As a social event I'm sure it will be a lot of fun.
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Yeah, I might go down and swear at some bankers. City employees have apparently been advised to avoid usual suit-n-tie and look inconspicuous. I expect the demo to be full of bankers swearing at themselves.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
That would be so like bankers. They're probably figuring out some scheme to tranche up the rage and sell securities off it even as we speak. Anyway, I would love to come and swear at some Nat West/RBS types. I got fined £350 last month for the sake of a £20 "unauthorised overdraft", which they charged me 30% effective APR for as well. Bastards.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"That would be so like bankers. They're probably figuring out some scheme to tranche up the rage and sell securities off it even as we speak. Anyway, I would love to come and swear at some Nat West/RBS types. I got fined £350 last month for the sake of a £20 "unauthorised overdraft", which they charged me 30% effective APR for as well. Bastards."
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One of my friends works for RBS - apparently someone got spat on leaving the office last week. It was probably one of the cleaners but I guess it's the thought that counts.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
That's the problem, isn't it? I had a massive argument with the staff at the bank when I got fined, because it seems clear that RBS has ramped up the charges in the last six months in order to fill the smoking hole in their capital base. I tried to explain to them what a bunch of nefarious greedy cretins they are, how they had wrecked our economy and nearly gotten our sovereign debt downgraded (could still happen). But they just looked back at me with blank, slightly alarmed expressions and mumbled something about signing a contract allowing them to do this when I opened an account. Very unsatisfying.
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
vimothy said:
That's the problem, isn't it? I had a massive argument with the staff at the bank when I got fined, because it seems clear that RBS has ramped up the charges in the last six months in order to fill the smoking hole in their capital base. I tried to explain to them what a bunch of nefarious greedy cretins they are, how they had wrecked our economy and nearly gotten our sovereign debt downgraded (could still happen). But they just looked back at me with blank, slightly alarmed expressions and mumbled something about signing a contract allowing them to do this when I opened an account. Very unsatisfying.
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But I thought everyone just sues them to get the money back and wins. £350 fine for is plainly indefensible.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Nah, it's gone to court and there is a moratorium on repayments of fines on at the moment.

EDIT: The deal was, threaten the banks with a court date, which they wanted to avoid, so would repay.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Nah, it's gone to court and there is a moratorium on repayments of fines on at the moment."
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Yes. The banks lost the first court case but I guess they're appealing and either way it hasn't been decided whether or not they will have to pay everyone back yet. Events in the financial world since then make me tend to think that the government is probably not going to look too kindly on anything becoming law that is going to suck loads of money out of their banks.
 
B

bob effect

somnambulist
vimothy said:
If anyone is interested (it is quite a long essay), here's what a former chief economist of the IMF thinks about the financial crisis. It's probaboly not that dissimilar to most people here:
If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform.​
Click to expand...

That's an excellent article.
But that first age of banking oligarchs came to an end with the passage of significant banking regulation in response to the Great Depression; the reemergence of an American financial oligarchy is quite recent.
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Made me think of this
 
P

polystyle

Well-known member
Banks and their over actions

vimothy said:
T Anyway, I would love to come and swear at some Nat West/RBS types. I got fined £350 last month for the sake of a £20 "unauthorised overdraft", which they charged me 30% effective APR for as well. Bastards.
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Wow Vimothy - that IS an outrage.
And we were complaining here about a $25 charge for a $2.50 unauthorised overdraft from Citibank, in our case re: some sight miscalculation or money manipulations between what we had already paid off and some lingering interest charged.
We are just dealing with dollar - pound issues in the house today so this was amazing to hear.
Glad to hear you let them have it in person too !
Banks and financial system needs overhaul , they broke their own world.

Credit card companies are due for new legislation too ...
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
I saw a really telling graph on Johnson's website the other day (also in Johnson's essay, and apologies for ridiculous size):

compensation4.jpg
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
polystyle desu said:
Wow Vimothy - that IS an outrage.
And we were complaining here about a $25 charge for a $2.50 unauthorised overdraft from Citibank, in our case re: some sight miscalculation or money manipulations between what we had already paid off and some lingering interest charged.
We are just dealing with dollar - pound issues in the house today so this was amazing to hear.
Glad to hear you let them have it in person too !
Banks and financial system needs overhaul , they broke their own world.

Credit card companies are due for new legislation too ...
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I love the idea of a red-faced Vimothy raving about sovereign debt downgrade to a £15k/year bank cashier. It needs its own Simpsons episode, with Vim as the boffin or Comic Books Guy
 
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