crackerjack
Well-known member
Try it again with an 'e'.
Suggest a Book for the dissensus book club!
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Try it again with an 'e'.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Didn't get a chance to start until this morning but I read the first fifty odd pages on the way in to work and I'd agree with most of that (especially about the "e" in foreboding). It's certainly a very easy read, love the description of his journey in to London and in general the simple but poetic way that he writes.
One thing that struck me is the way that there is a slight distance from the central relationship, so far at least, there has never been any reports of conversations or what was actually said between the two of them. Just descriptions of the generalities of their conversations and the odd quote from Austerlitz.
As an aside, on pretty much the first page there is a comparison of some nocturnal creatures with "certain painters and philosophers who seek to penetrate the darkness" and then (in my edition at least, presumably in all?) a picture of two pairs of eyes - does anyone know who they belong to?
One thing that struck me is the way that there is a slight distance from the central relationship, so far at least, there has never been any reports of conversations or what was actually said between the two of them. Just descriptions of the generalities of their conversations and the odd quote from Austerlitz.
As an aside, on pretty much the first page there is a comparison of some nocturnal creatures with "certain painters and philosophers who seek to penetrate the darkness" and then (in my edition at least, presumably in all?) a picture of two pairs of eyes - does anyone know who they belong to?
jenks
thread death
I don't know but there was a book of his verse published after his death 'Unrecounted' which is a collection of epigraphs with the same letterbox pictures of eyes. Jan eter Tripp provided the lithographs. One i picked at random:
Terrible
is the thought
of our worn-
out clothes
IdleRich
IdleRich
OK, won't give anything away but I have to say that I'm really getting in to it now.
There is some sense of things a times feeling as though they are happening underwater or on the other side of a sheet of glass, actually I think the water description is more accurate or better still through a covering such as a quilt. There is a kind of blunt melancholic feel rather than a sharp sadness.
SLIGHT SPOILER
This bit really affected me:
She said, so quietly that you could hardly hear her: What was it that so darkened our world? And Elias replied: I don't know, dear, I don't know
I think I can sort of see what you're getting at here but I wouldn't say that it is a bad thing.
There is some sense of things a times feeling as though they are happening underwater or on the other side of a sheet of glass, actually I think the water description is more accurate or better still through a covering such as a quilt. There is a kind of blunt melancholic feel rather than a sharp sadness.
SLIGHT SPOILER
This bit really affected me:
She said, so quietly that you could hardly hear her: What was it that so darkened our world? And Elias replied: I don't know, dear, I don't know
IdleRich
IdleRich
Could do I guesss....but I don't think anyone has really put any spoilers up yet, merely discussions of style (I was just being ultra-careful with that spoiler warning I put up). I tend to think that if things are highlighted safely it ought to be ok but if anyone disagrees with that very strongly then make it known.
With that said
(very slight possible) SPOILER
Anyone else struck at times by the resemblance between Austerlitz and Robinson the not-quite-there hole at the centre of London and Robinson in Space? Both are known to us only through a narrator (so far at least) and both travel round places making strange notes and trying to come up with a barely-hinted-at theory of stuff which is something to do with the geography of places, the architecture and the people who have lived there. This especially struck me in the parts where it describes Austerlitz wandering around East London at night (this also reminded me of Alan Moore). They also both have some kind of unhappiness or bitterness which I guess is more explicit in Robinson.
Of course Austerlitz seems a lot more present than Robinson and you get descriptions of him which (as far as I can recall) you never get with Robinson but the similarities in what they do seemed worth remarking.
having read Austerlitz i have to say, in the best possible way, you do not need to worry about spoilers.
although i think you should start a seperate thread just for this book rather than carrying on the discussion from here.
i'm actually quite amazed a decision was reached.
although i think you should start a seperate thread just for this book rather than carrying on the discussion from here.
i'm actually quite amazed a decision was reached.
you
Well-known member
Well, i ordered Austerlitz and Spook Country from amazon but only Spook Country arrived, amazon have been really good about the problem and just dispatched an Austerlitz for me right away though..... so er, like, I havent started it yet!
Did read Neuromancer and Bukowskis Factotum whilst on skye though, adored both.
Did read Neuromancer and Bukowskis Factotum whilst on skye though, adored both.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Where are You based?
If you're in London you could have my copy of Austerlitz if you like 'cause I've finished it now. Of course it may be useful to reference it if anyone actually is going to discuss it but if it's an emergency you can have it.
I remember liking Factotum and hating Post Office, or was it the other way round? I don't know why really 'cause they're both the same, I think I was just more accepting of his style by the time I read Factotum.
Neuromancer is good though.
If you're in London you could have my copy of Austerlitz if you like 'cause I've finished it now. Of course it may be useful to reference it if anyone actually is going to discuss it but if it's an emergency you can have it.
I remember liking Factotum and hating Post Office, or was it the other way round? I don't know why really 'cause they're both the same, I think I was just more accepting of his style by the time I read Factotum.
Neuromancer is good though.
you
Well-known member
Sorry, im in the midlands, no worrys, I expect ill get it tomorrow or wednesday really. Thats very kind of you though!
Yeah neuromancer was good, very readable but I found it confusing every now and then, found it kinda hard to keep track of everything, especially the goings on between the finn, 3jane, neuromancer, corto etc.... I loved the tokyo imagery in the first quarter of the book. Wondeful. Watched ghost in the shell the other day for the first time since reading Gibson.... wow, so many similar ideas..........neuromancer is just crammed full of ideas - really had enough themes for a whole genre to sprout from!
Actually I had an interesting discussion with a friend last night..... he said apart from Frankenstein "Alice in wonderland" may be the first sc-fi novel, or gullivers travels.... interesting thoughts, im kinda just getting into sci-fi at the mo
Bukowski - I feel its a bit of guilty pleasure. Its just a collection of short storys really, like all his stuff, but I just find it so addictive, im very sad when I finish a Bukowski and dont have another one to hand!
Yeah neuromancer was good, very readable but I found it confusing every now and then, found it kinda hard to keep track of everything, especially the goings on between the finn, 3jane, neuromancer, corto etc.... I loved the tokyo imagery in the first quarter of the book. Wondeful. Watched ghost in the shell the other day for the first time since reading Gibson.... wow, so many similar ideas..........neuromancer is just crammed full of ideas - really had enough themes for a whole genre to sprout from!
Actually I had an interesting discussion with a friend last night..... he said apart from Frankenstein "Alice in wonderland" may be the first sc-fi novel, or gullivers travels.... interesting thoughts, im kinda just getting into sci-fi at the mo
Bukowski - I feel its a bit of guilty pleasure. Its just a collection of short storys really, like all his stuff, but I just find it so addictive, im very sad when I finish a Bukowski and dont have another one to hand!
jenks
thread death
I'm nearly finished, having purposely taken it slowly.
I thought thta most would start posting once they had read the whole thing - it will be easier that way and means there should be less chance of soilers. Although, to be honest, it's not a book that has too many plot surprises.
I am thoroughly enjoying it and can't wait to start getting involved in the discussion.
I thought thta most would start posting once they had read the whole thing - it will be easier that way and means there should be less chance of soilers. Although, to be honest, it's not a book that has too many plot surprises.
I am thoroughly enjoying it and can't wait to start getting involved in the discussion.
IdleRich
IdleRich
No problem. Anyway it shouldn't take you too long to read.
I wonder, are they sci-fi? What about Jules Verne? Surely around the same time as Alice In Wonderland and more how I imagine sci-fi. I bet there are earlier ones though. Edit: how about Frankenstein or Edgar Allen Poe?
Thank God for that.
Likewise. Excellent choice of book.
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I'd very much agree with your description of the book's tone here, Rich, and I like to think this isn't just because I'd read your post when I'd only just started reading. One thing that struck me was that much of this comes from the physical layout and typesetting of it: the fact it's set as a single continuous block of text, without even any paragraphing; the total absence of speech marks; the uncaptioned photographs. It might sound as if these ought to be superficial features of the novel, but I think they combine to give it the feel of being the narrator's internal monologue (albeit a very coherent one) rather than something that was at any time written down or typed out, for someone else to read. I suppose this could be part of the muted or glassy feel you're talking about.
Yes it is beautiful. Allow me to to be a little contrarian, though, and say that like much of the book it teeters on the edge of being poetry prose cheese. I'm very much in two minds on it all at the moment. Beautifully written but there's something overly consistent about it all. That muffled/underwater tone you speak of is is slightly oppressive. I don't know maybe I'm just bitching because they're aren't more car chases. I grow impatient/fearful of the, 'what is it that darkened our world, dear' tone that pervades the book. At bottom, dare I say, its hugely indulgent. And if thats too real world for you, what better measure is there?
I probably need to get back to the book and read in a more sustained fashion and allow myself to be taken by the style. (no, not finished yet). Back on the 'what a cool book tip' here's some writing, that I thought was completely delightful.
'...a man who suffered from insomnia and withdrew into the observatory he had built at the top of the house to devote himself to various astronomical studies, particularly selenography or the delineation of the moon...' p.148
'Seleneography' Ha! What a word. And to learn it meant the delineation of the moon... so as to produce a map, ... 'five by five feet, .. easily surpassing all earlier depictions of the earth's satellite in its precision and beauty, those of Riccioli and Cassini, Tobias Mayer and Hevelius alike.'
And there's shit loads more, like this, on page 157, '... she raised her free hand and put the hair back from my forehead, as if she knew, in this one gesture, that she had the gift of being remembered.'
It has to be said that it all suffers from being quoted out of the context of the flow of the book.
Oh, and btw, whats this spoiler concern. Nabokov said all reading is re-reading. We should all be reading it twice at least. (says he who hasn't even finished it.
)And what of the photos..?
jenks
thread death
Last week i had to travel out of Liverpool Street and felt distinctly odd to be reading about Austerlitz's moment of clarity in a ghostly version of the station.
Yes, the narrative style has got soemthing of the Robinson about it - reported and somehow distant. However, isn't art of the point that 'history/historical events' have made him like that - he is sheered clear of his past. Ultimately a rootless man through no fault of his own?
Just first thoughts here really - i think Memory, Loss, History are some of the big ideas here but i also feel there is something about the manner in which the story is revealed that is both comelling and essential to the novel's success - it is reticent and doesn't allow the reader easy comfort.
i like the way that every journey in the novel is very much an each of the earlier fateful journeys of both Austerlitz and his parents.
Yes, the narrative style has got soemthing of the Robinson about it - reported and somehow distant. However, isn't art of the point that 'history/historical events' have made him like that - he is sheered clear of his past. Ultimately a rootless man through no fault of his own?
Just first thoughts here really - i think Memory, Loss, History are some of the big ideas here but i also feel there is something about the manner in which the story is revealed that is both comelling and essential to the novel's success - it is reticent and doesn't allow the reader easy comfort.
i like the way that every journey in the novel is very much an each of the earlier fateful journeys of both Austerlitz and his parents.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Similar links for me between where as I was and where the novel was happening as I travelled to work last week.
I guess so. What do you think of the extended passages where the narrator is describing Austerlitz describing a story that is being told to him? There seem to be a lot of (clumsy?) sentences ending "...said Vera, Austerlitz told me" which further reinforce this separation.
Certainly.
Maybe. I don't think it was so much the way that things were revealed as just the way things happened in general. The revealing was thus necessarily of that same style.
Well, a sentence like that one I just quoted is bound to walk that line but I think it came down on the right side of it on that occasion.
Who is being indulged? That's not reall a feeling I got at all.