baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
The constant in any football support is the area and the fanbase I guess - it's postcode wars. Does seem ludicrous when teams change on a Chelsea/Man City level though, form one season to the next.

Barcelona is pretty great in the number of players they draw locally, and Athletic Bilbao only take Basque players if I'm right?

Agreed on the last bit for sure. And that was how I always felt about the first bit until relatively recently. It's not the wages I disagree with at such, I guess it's just that I find it hard to care about which randomly assembled group beats another randomly assembled group. What am I supporting - the shirt, the area? I dunno. I'd probably feel different if I'd grown up with an attachment to one of my local teams (born Swindon, grew up near Oxford) but I followed my Dad (a manc) in supporting Manchester United. That's kinda what I was talking about in terms of guilt previously. Perhaps I'd be better off supporting a London team near where I live now but it seems wrong to change.
I do really enjoy playing in two evening sides though and I care a lot more about how they get on than any team on the telly. Which is a shame cos the one I'm gonna play for tonight is locked in a relegation battle with only two wins in seven games.
 

e/y

Well-known member
wrt to Athletic - I think the rule currently is that any player who has had his footballing education (so I'm guessing from 6-7 years old) in the Basque country is eligible to play for the club.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Was made up for them that they beat United last week. Played some brilliant football in doing so too; I miss the days when Spain's 'lesser' clubs were all over the Champions' League: Deportivo La Coruna my personal favourites, swashbuckling football....can't believe they got relegated :(
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"wrt to Athletic - I think the rule currently is that any player who has had his footballing education (so I'm guessing from 6-7 years old) in the Basque country is eligible to play for the club."
Think there are two Basque clubs and one is more hardcore on the rules than the other. Hasn't it led to accusations of racism cos of the dearth of black players?
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Not sure. Have heard some depressing stories in general about racism in northern Spain; not the most surprising thing ever perhaps, but jesus why are people such dicks..?
 

Esp

Well-known member
I'd like to know who it is. My friend works on the Guardian but he can't find anything out. I can't think of many prem players I'd credit with that degree of thoughtfulness to be honest.

Its a great column, I wondered myself who it could be and after googling found there's a whole site dedicated to unmasking him: http://www.whoisthesecretfootballer.co.uk/

As sad as that site is, I noticed that someone on there mentioned that the TSF twitter follows Kevin Davies' wife, which as they pointed out, would suggest its either Kevin Davies or John Terry.

I reckon there are probably quite a lot of footballers who are considered and thoughtful but they're faced with so many disincentives to speaking out, it makes sense to just rattle off the media-trained platitudes in interviews.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Fair play to the Guardian, it's a good idea for a column and it lifts the lid a bit on a world that I've not seen into before.
 

e/y

Well-known member
Think there are two Basque clubs and one is more hardcore on the rules than the other. Hasn't it led to accusations of racism cos of the dearth of black players?

yeah, there's Sociedad, but iirc they ditched the Basque-only policy some time ago. Osasuna are also in the Basque country, but they too don't have a specific selection policy.

Athletic fielded a mixed race 18 year old defender this season, and that was a big milestone for the club.
 

dd528

Well-known member
Really interesting article in Sports Illustrated here from Sid Lowe on Jonas Ramalho signing for Athletic and their history of recruiting only Basque players:

In essence, the policy has largely hung on the simple notion of all players being Basque, from one of the seven historic Basque provinces -- the three that make up the modern Basque Country, Navarra (disputed by some), and the French Basque provinces, known as Iparralde (the "northern zone" in Euskera). Only one French player has signed for directly for Athletic's first team. That was Bixente Lizarazu and although there was no question over his Basque status (just look at his name), the decision was still a controversial one.
The problem is: what counts as Basque? Who does? Is it about birthplace?

[..]

Much has changed, but that does not explain this latest, most striking, debut. Jonas Ramalho fits both criteria: nationality and footballing formation. At any point in history he would have been eligible to play for Athletic Bilbao. Ramalho's passport is Spanish. His father Tomas is from Angola, his mother Natalia is Basque and he was born in Baracaldo, Vizcaya. He was raised in Leiona, just outside Bilbao, spending his entire life in the Basque Country. And he joined Athletic at the age of 10. His debut on Sunday should not have made a huge impact. But being black, it did.

On something of a tangent, I'm a United fan and I reckon that, bad though we were last Thursday, Athletic were by far one of the best sides to come to Old Trafford in recent years, based on that one performance.

It's been odd finding our club in the Europa League for the first time, and I think a lot of fans (myself included) haven't really known how to feel about it. Before we kicked a ball in the competition I was gutted to be out of the running for the European Cup, but really intrigued by the prospect of getting a chance to play against a host of European clubs we'd otherwise not get a chance to meet. That enthusiasm has been pretty effectively tempered by the string of godawful performances we've put in so far against Ajax and Athletic.

There has been a real nervousness about the prospect that City might beat us to the league title for the first time in a very, very long time. Recognition of that challenge had led to a certain kind of resignation when it comes to Europe. I think most United fans would be delighted to win the Europa League, but if there's even a slight chance that it might drain the team to the extent that City got the edge in the league, I'd take getting dumped out of Europe in a second.

I hope that the psychological boost of going top of the table at the weekend might carry through to a decent performance tomorrow night and we can do what needs to be done against Athletic. To be honest though, the problems we've had all season in Europe probably largely remain, and I'm just not sure the players want it badly enough to go away from home and win by two goals. Tomorrow night fans and players alike will both have one eye on going to Molineux on Sunday, and so I'd imagine we'll get exactly what we deserve in Bilbao.

I'll stop whining now cos it must be quite annoying to people whose clubs have got real problems like relegation battles or bankruptcy...
 

Esp

Well-known member
I think most United fans would be delighted to win the Europa League, but if there's even a slight chance that it might drain the team to the extent that City got the edge in the league, I'd take getting dumped out of Europe in a second.

You'd think almost all fans would agree, Im not a Man U fan but if I were I'd want them to get knocked out tomorrow. Thursday nights are too close to the weekend to be flying out to places like the Ukraine to play teams like FC Metalist Kharkiv. You could see the effect on Stoke and Man U do not have the strongest squad, it doesnt seem worth the risk of injuries if nothing else.

It'd be good if winning the Europa gave a team access to the qualifying stages of the Champs League the following year, I guess thats probably unfeasible but it would definitely give the competition a bit more gravitas.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
I am a Utd fan if anything but I couldn't give too much of a fuck about Europa. To be honest I've always thought that it was a silly idea to have the non-qualifiers from the Champs League demoted to that - I understand the idea was to incentivise teams when they couldn't qualify from the group statges but I think it gives the Europa thing a kind of second best feel that it never used to have, certainly not in the days of the UEFA cup when it was often stronger than the old European Cup. The teams that are in the Europa to start with have good cause to be aggrieved about the dilution of the tournament with a number of nominally stronger but potentially unmotivated sides.
 
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dd528

Well-known member
The teams that are in the Europa to start with have good cause to be aggrieved about the dilution of the tournament with a number of nominally stronger but potentially unmotivated sides.

Definitely a lot of truth in that. Having just watched United go out of the competition (very well beaten across two legs by a better team, too) the players didn't look anywhere near as bothered as they did by going out of the Champions League. Not to mention how bothered they've looked when they've lost to the likes of Blackburn in the league.

The Europa League is a bit of a weird hybrid competition. It clearly means a huge amount to some of the teams who play in it - the likes of Athletic or Fulham - but so little to many others. To some extent allowing the Champions League runoff into the Europa League undermines the enthusiasm of the teams already in it. That said, those Athletic fans didn't really look like letting United's indifference rain on their parade at all tonight.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Can only assume Don Q no longer visits... that or he's lying comatose in a street near Elland Rd.

And in more important news, Brighton up to fourth and probably the form team in the play-off places, despite being pretty unconvincing most of the season. :eek: Someone calculated that Vicente has contributed two goals or assists for every 90 mins he's been on the pitch. Robin Van Who?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
For a brief second I read that as saying that football clubs were taking out payday loans from Wonga etc to survive to the end of the week. It actually wouldn't surprise me.
Anyway - fuck all that - what about the real game of football last night in Finsbury Park where seven heroes turned round a nil -three half time deficit against a hitherto invincible foe? I've still got a hard-on.
 
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