Nuggets, Pebbles, Boulders.....

petergunn

plywood violin
SO many comps on that label- a raibow of titles

@petergunn. very illuminating.

-

http://www.ugly-things.com/

nothing like a qualitative guide anywhere though. i suppose what would be the criteria?

http://turnmeondeadman.net is another good garage psych site...

criteria for this type of stuff? too freaky to be straight garage rock and too rocking to be beard stroking psych...

oh and i found a decent history of Times Sq. Records, for anyone interested...

http://www.timessquarerecords.org/MeaninfulMemories.htm
http://www.timessquarerecords.org

the dawn of record collecting as we know it?

and an interesting aside, it later morphed into Downstairs Records, THE store of the early hip hop beat digging era of the mid to late 70's, where all the Bronx dudes like Bambaata and Flash went record shopping...
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
>Times Square Records

i think i've been there, ages ago. there's this big room where there's racks and racks of golden oldies that are all in plain sleeves -- brown, or possibly dull golden. it looked like there was one company doing them, getting the right to reissue singles from major labels that couldn't be arsed or now defunct soul and country independents.

So it wasn't reissue culture in the sense we'd understand -- labels that curate like Blood and Fire or LTM or Soul Jazz, with a bias to the arcane and esoteric and under-valued -- but more like a nostalgia market servicing middle aged people who'd never bought a favorite record back in the day and now craved, or lost the record or something.

i remember a company in the UK doing that in the early 80s, golden oldies in gold identikit sleeves, things like petula clark 'downtown' and classic soul one hit wonders. for the people who just want the song, don't fetishise having the original pressing with the sleeve and the label and all that.
 

Tyro

The Kandy Tangerine Man
The Pebbles LP's were going for about £10 back in the early 80's.I literally starved to collect the first ten volumes.The bootleggers were increasing awareness about these overlooked bands,but also making A LOT of cash out of them.Many of the artists had no idea that their stuff was being reissued.With the advent of the internet many of these artists were tracked down and their music was legitimately licensed for release.The bootlegging never really went away however and is now bigger than ever in the form of file sharing.


http://www.myspace.com/thekandytangerineman
 

petergunn

plywood violin
>Times Square Records

i think i've been there, ages ago. there's this big room where there's racks and racks of golden oldies that are all in plain sleeves -- brown, or possibly dull golden. it looked like there was one company doing them, getting the right to reissue singles from major labels that couldn't be arsed or now defunct soul and country independents.

So it wasn't reissue culture in the sense we'd understand -- labels that curate like Blood and Fire or LTM or Soul Jazz, with a bias to the arcane and esoteric and under-valued -- but more like a nostalgia market servicing middle aged people who'd never bought a favorite record back in the day and now craved, or lost the record or something.

i remember a company in the UK doing that in the early 80s, golden oldies in gold identikit sleeves, things like petula clark 'downtown' and classic soul one hit wonders. for the people who just want the song, don't fetishise having the original pressing with the sleeve and the label and all that.

in america, the big oldies reissue label is called Collectibles: http://www.oldies.com/

i know the spot you're talking about, i think it was a little south, in the 30's, no? Times Sq. Records closed in the early 70's, tho...

in terms of Times Sq. Records, it was a curated thing (strictly doo wop records, which were a small portion of the r&b market and only really really flourished in NYC) and it was not targeted towards middle aged people, i mean initially these records were rereleased less than 10 years after their original release...

Billboard ran a prominent feature story about the Times Square concept; record producers and execs from local labels followed the kids down the stairs to Slim's shop. There was a distinctive "Slim" sound; usually a passionate, high-pitched lead voice (Slim loved the Frankie Lymon knockoffs), plenty of falsetto and high tenor parts, and, of course, the ubiquitous rumbling bass. The classic R&B sound of the pioneer groups of the early fifties - the Orioles, Five Keys, or Ravens - was perhaps too complex (and maybe too black) for the mostly white teens who crowded Slim's store. A few discerning collectors (Mr. D'Elia, for one) recognized the merits of the Swallows and Dominoes in the early sixties, but most customers opted for the kiddie lead -- The Elchords"' Peppermint Stick," the gimmicky doo-wop, the Five Discs'"I Remember," orthe ringing ballad - the Admirations' "The Bells of Rosa Rita," all prime examples of the "Slim sound."

The Times Square label was born in the winter of 1961. Slim had acquired the rights to several masters and wanted to manufacture repressings on the original labels. Clarence "Jack Rags" Johnson, the co‑writer of "Desirie" by the Charts and ownerof the tiny Cee-Jay label, approached Slim with an exceptional new mixed group (three blacks, two whites) which, of course, they christened (by way of a contest) the Timetones. Slim was initially opposed to the creation of his own label; he was very busy just running his shop. Wayne Stierle, who helped in the store and supplied Times with key reissues, persuaded Slim that his image would be greatly enhancedby a custom record label. According to Stierle, he then fabricated the first simple black and-silver design for the Times Square label, used only for "(Here) In My Heart" and "Go Back Where You Came From." Slim soon dropped Stierle's design for a more elaborate black-and-orange logo, obviously copied from the legendary Chance Records of Chicago label art.


http://www.lulusko.www7.50megs.com/TIMESSQUARE/tsrindex.htm

BUT, to continue the digging the reissue idea back furthor, a friend steered me to this:

Milt Gabler was born in Harlem, May 20, 1911, the eldest of six children. He worked for his father at a hardware store on 42nd Street while a student at Stuyvesant H.S. He talked his father into installing a record department in his radio shop which quickly became the Commodore Music Shop, the first jazz specialist store.

Circa 1933, at the bottom of the depression, he had reissued a few Jack Teagarden items from the old ARC* dime store labels on the Commodore label. He also ordered special re-pressings of out-of-print Vocallion records by Pinetop Smith, Romeo Nelson, etc. When ARC pressed beyond his special-orders for sale to Commodore's competitiors, he started the UHCA label. UHCA meant United Hot Clubs of America, which really didn't exist (but was a good idea). UHCA eventually went beyond re-issuing jazz classics from Paramount, Gennett, Okeh, Columbia, etc. to unearthing valuable unissued material by early jazz masters.

http://www.delmark.com/rhythm.gabler.htm

so, here is a boutique reissue operation, specializing in early New Orleans style jazz, in 1933! and again in Times Square...
 

petergunn

plywood violin
another great quote, re Times Sq. Records:

They created the mythology of the "group" as almost a sacred entity; if a recording did not feature a rock'n roll or R&B lead, bass, and harmonizing vocals, it didn't matter. They conveniently relegated blues and rockabilly, not to mention Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino and the great R&B single artists of the early fifties—Amos Milburn, Charles Brown, Wynonie Harris, even Joe Turner- to the ten cent bins.
 

Tyro

The Kandy Tangerine Man
another great quote, re Times Sq. Records:

They created the mythology of the "group" as almost a sacred entity; if a recording did not feature a rock'n roll or R&B lead, bass, and harmonizing vocals, it didn't matter. They conveniently relegated blues and rockabilly, not to mention Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Fats Domino and the great R&B single artists of the early fifties—Amos Milburn, Charles Brown, Wynonie Harris, even Joe Turner- to the ten cent bins.

That goes some way to explaining why Doo-Wop records fetch such high prices with American collectors.It seems like a lot of the taste making was forged at this time.Oh,to have been at those ten cent bins!


http://www.myspace.com/thekandytangerineman
 

petergunn

plywood violin
That goes some way to explaining why Doo-Wop records fetch such high prices with American collectors.It seems like a lot of the taste making was forged at this time.Oh,to have been at those ten cent bins!

yup. and alot of those guy still run record shops today... all exactly the same:

owner smokes either cigarettes or cigars in the store, owner NEVER plays music in the store only talk radio or the news... owner's cronies come by to talk bullshit about the neighborhood or other record collectors... owner has zero interest in music made after 1963, unless said music was made by Elvis...

i feel like when these guys die, the market wil die with them, tho you never know... there was this one kid in my 7th grade class (age 13) who was really weird and quiet and vagely effeminate and dressed in black with a turtleneck and only hung out with two fat girls all the time... anyways, i went to my first record show when i was 14, and he was there manning a table with his dad (there was SOME resemblence facially), who was a huge, scary looking elvis/doo wop collector looking dude with a big pompadour and a pack of unfiltered camels in his shirt pocket... i'd like to think he passed the business down...
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"i feel like when these guys die, the market wil die with them"
This is something that always interests me - surely the bottom will suddenly fall out of doo-wop, then rockabilly, garage, psych etc. I've heard that there are people who think that they've stored up bits that they can retire on... maybe should cash them in before they lose their value. How many people who can't remember the tunes from the time are gonna pony up a thousand pounds on some doo wop seven no matter how rare it is? Not many I reckon.

"as an aside, do you think it's likely that the line in le tigre's 'deceptacon', 'who took the bomp...', is a ref to that?"
Both (Le Tigre and Greg Shaw) took the name from an older song by... I can't remember.
 
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