Since it's been a while since we had an Israel/Palestine thread...

luka

luka

Well-known member
THEN ED,MUNDS FRIENDS STARTING THREEATENING TO BEAT ME UP FOR MY DISRESECT I HAD ENGENDERED TO THEM
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
So for those still paying attention, the ethnic cleansing talk, under the truly Orwellian guise of "voluntary emigration", has ramped up so hard that the State Depth had to personally rebuke Smotrich and Ben-Gvir

Ben-Gvir, who again is the Minister of Security, specifically said Israel would reestablish its Gazan settlements at Gush Katif and elsewhere

He then clapped back against the State Dept, saying basically "thanks but go fuck yourself cos we're doing it anyway"

And the State Dept condemnation obv rings extremely hollow given that we continue to wrote the govt Ben-Gvir is a part of blank checks

Another Israeli proposal being floated is literal bantustans in Gaza, to I guess complete apartheid bingo

The problem goes far beyond Ben-Gvir and Smotrich tho. This gentleman has created a handy thread of pro-war crime statements by Likud MKs.

Of which this one in particular stands out. She, like fellow MK Zvika Fogel, also called for nuking Gaza a couple months ago.

Speaking only for myself, I've changed my and would now apply genocide label. Besides mass starvation and total collapse of medical services directly caused by the siege, there is clearly a deliberate intent to, under the guise of the war, uproot and displace the population of Gaza, and make conditions so unlivable that it's impossible to stay.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Also for anyone who doesn't already know, the inevitable Mossad assassination campaign has begun

Solid chance it will be the flashpoint for a more general Israel-Hezb conflict, possibly even the regional Gotterdamerung with Iran that Bibi dreams of. If they do go into Lebanon, going by recent history it's unlikely it go as well for the IDF as Gaza has, tho if it's full gloves off I guess who knows.

I question the efficacy of these assassination campaigns in advancing political goals or even acting as a deterrent, as they basically never have in the past and surely any Hamas leader expects to be killed sooner or later. That's especially true now when there's little will or infrastructure on either side to seriously pursue peace. You could of course say the same thing about suicide bombings, 10/7, etc. Just endless cycles of violent reprisals.
 
V

version

Well-known member
Bunch of people are furious with Habermas because he's come out in support of Israel:

Grundsätze der Solidarität. Eine Stellungnahme - Normative Orders

Die derzeitige Situation, die durch den an Grausamkeit nicht zu überbietenden Angriff der Hamas und Israels Reaktion darauf geschaffen wurde, hat zu einer Kaskade von moralisch-politischen Stellungnahmen und Demonstrationen geführt. Wir sind der Auffassung, dass bei all den widerstreitenden...
www.normativeorders.net www.normativeorders.net

Bifo isn't pulling any punches in his response:

When German intellectuals said the words: Nie wieder, I understood (naively of course) that they wanted to say: never more ethnic cleansing, never more mass deportation, never more racial discrimination never more extermination camps, never more Nazism.

As I read the words of the prominent philosopher and of the members of the European political elite, as I listen to the silence of the majority of those who used to be intellectuals – I understand that those two words have a different meaning. I understand that from a German point of view, those words (Nie Wieder) have to be interpreted this way: after killing six million Jews, two million Rom people, three hundred thousand communists, and twenty million soviets, we, the Germans will protect Israel no matter what, because they are no longer the enemy of our superior race, but a part of it. Therefore they have been granted the privilege that we already have: the privilege of the colonizers, of the exploiters, of the exterminators.
Click to expand...

Tactical Media Room | Letter to the Hypocrites of Europe

networkcultures.org networkcultures.org
 
yyaldrin

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
in germany you will have german grandchildren of nazi war criminals telling jewish people that opposing israel's war, or supporting a ceasefire, is antisemitic. it's insane.
 
V

version

Well-known member
yyaldrin said:
in germany you will have german grandchildren of nazi war criminals telling jewish people that opposing israel's war, or supporting a ceasefire, is antisemitic. it's insane.
Click to expand...

There's evidently still a strong sense of collective guilt in German society. Unsurprising, really.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
yyyyaldrin is always right except when he pretended his friends dont look like djs on the boring techno platform, hor.
 
yyaldrin

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
it's just that i find those people really embarrasiing, all the boilerroom and hör and that sort of people dancing in front of a camera
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
yyaldrin said:
i don't believe it's guilt to be honest, it's rather a feeling of moral and racial superiority.
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That doesn't really explain why this position on Israel has taken root so strongly in Germany in particular, though, especially when you consider how Jews were considered there within living memory.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
And it's hardly as if Germany is the only European countries with a history of imperialism. In fact it's not even one of the biggies in that respect.
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
yyaldrin said:
in germany you will have german grandchildren of nazi war criminals telling jewish people that opposing israel's war, or supporting a ceasefire, is antisemitic. it's insane.
Click to expand...
In what way have they chosen their grandfathers? Are their grandfathers a statement on anything? Do you want them to ungrandfather? How many 'great's before grandfather are needed to wash out the stain?
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Mr. Tea said:
That doesn't really explain why this position on Israel has taken root so strongly in Germany in particular, though, especially when you consider how Jews were considered there within living memory.
Click to expand...
They're supporting Israel to discourage accusations of being anti-semitic, given that practically everyone there had a Nazi-supporting grandfather, and some people think that property is genetically inherited.

Modern society disincentivises saying the wrong thing more than incentivises saying the right thing, so what people say is not necessarily what they believe it's just what they feel they need to say to avoid punishment by vigilantes.
 
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