Rhythm sense

Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Pestario said:
There really does need to be more experimentation in time signatures in electronic music.
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Again, I don't really see why - for dancefloor music in particular. I'd be quite happy to see more rhythmic variety within the 4/4 time sig, but producing tunes in 3/4 or 5/4 seems like locking yourself out of getting played in the clubs and thereby more or less locking yourself out of making a meaningful contribution to the culture, all for the sake of a rather self conscious 'innovation'.

Oh, and fwiw clownstep is often in 12/8, although I guess that's essentially triplets over 4/4.

The tendancy of 'IDM' type stuff to stick within parameters derived from dance music while losing any particular imperative to make people dance is a bit silly, though,
 
M

muser

Well-known member
Pestario said:
I guess no one has a theory on how we develop our sense of rhythm? There doesn't seem to be much information out there (on the internet). So anyway my best guess is that it's a mixture of genes and conditioning eg. being exposed to complex rhythms at a very young age.
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I reckon its much more conditioning but i'm a strong believer in nurture over nature in most cases anyway. But to me a sense of rhythm is not something thats inherent in anyone you develop it like anything else. Djembe drumming circles in West Africa have lots of weird time signatures and complicated fills, call and response etc, and they will have to just play the same basic rhythm in the circle from a young age for years before they even think about doing the more complex fills that the older members are doing.
 
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frogger

Member
Slothrop said:
Again, I don't really see why - for dancefloor music in particular. I'd be quite happy to see more rhythmic variety within the 4/4 time sig, but producing tunes in 3/4 or 5/4 seems like locking yourself out of getting played in the clubs and thereby more or less locking yourself out of making a meaningful contribution to the culture, all for the sake of a rather self conscious 'innovation'.

Oh, and fwiw clownstep is often in 12/8, although I guess that's essentially triplets over 4/4.

The tendancy of 'IDM' type stuff to stick within parameters derived from dance music while losing any particular imperative to make people dance is a bit silly, though,
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Can you think of any IDM artists who have transcended these parameters? I think Autechre did on Confield.


I don't see why 3/4 would be such a big deal on the dance floor. I don't think its very hard to lock into.

Some dubstep seems to be almost 3/4, as if its hidden inside the delay times and the syncopation.
 
M

muser

Well-known member
^Venetian Snares's main 'thing' is obscure time signatures and they aren't that uncommon in that area of the breakcore genre. There is alot of stuff about in 3/4 aswell Curser Minor does it alot, Monster Zoku Onsomb, Skream has a few tracks aswell, 3/4 has a very effective sort of bouncy feel to it and it can be mixed in with 4/4 music most of the time.
 
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Pestario

tell your friends
Slothrop said:
Again, I don't really see why - for dancefloor music in particular. I'd be quite happy to see more rhythmic variety within the 4/4 time sig, but producing tunes in 3/4 or 5/4 seems like locking yourself out of getting played in the clubs and thereby more or less locking yourself out of making a meaningful contribution to the culture, all for the sake of a rather self conscious 'innovation'.

Oh, and fwiw clownstep is often in 12/8, although I guess that's essentially triplets over 4/4.

The tendancy of 'IDM' type stuff to stick within parameters derived from dance music while losing any particular imperative to make people dance is a bit silly, though,
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I completely understand. That's why I was careful to say 'electronic music' rather than 'dance music'. Getting 5/4 stuff successfully on the dance floor is not a realistic prospect. I'm just looking out for music in strange time signatures that also have big basslines, synths etc.

mixed_biscuits said:
808 State's Lopez is in 5/4 time.

http://www.discogs.com/release/15580
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Thanks for this!
 
mixed_biscuits

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Pestario said:
Getting 5/4 stuff successfully on the dance floor is not a realistic prospect.
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Would be a good gimmick for an up-and-coming niche scene - and make it immediately distinctive too - give everything a strange, almost ineffable 'flavour.'

I've got some Venetian Snares - I remember listening to 'Anguish' and thinking that it sounded oddly fresh. It works well as a tune for dancing to, too - not too noodly.

Appreciation of rhythm must also be strongly ingrained by hearing and feeling the reverberations of one's footsteps. The 4 beats in footstep time mark how long one can say something meaningful to oneself without it becoming too uncomfortable/long-winded.
 
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frogger

Member
muser said:
^Venetian Snares's main 'thing' is obscure time signatures and they aren't that uncommon in that area of the breakcore genre. There is alot of stuff about in 3/4 aswell Curser Minor does it alot, Monster Zoku Onsomb, Skream has a few tracks aswell, 3/4 has a very effective sort of bouncy feel to it and it can be mixed in with 4/4 music most of the time.
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i think your right.

i think philip sherburne has a techno track that has aspects that are 3/4...
 
P

Pestario

tell your friends
M

michael

Bring out the vacuum
I think techno's more open to weird time signatures insofar as there's the kick on every beat and to some it's all just 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 anyway... Stefan Bodzin's 'Pendulum' has a compound time signature, something like 3+3+4+4/4, and I think most people wouldn't notice it's at all irregular.

Generally dance music in weird time signatures doesn't sit well with me at all, got no desire to hear more of it.
 
Gavin

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
3/4 is similar to 6/8 which is waltz time and therefore very dance-friendly! Polka and norteno are in waltz time.
 
Slothrop

Slothrop

Tight but Polite
Gavin said:
3/4 is similar to 6/8 which is waltz time and therefore very dance-friendly! Polka and norteno are in waltz time.
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Erm, I thought 3/4 was waltz time. 6/8 is standard (ie double) jigs and isn't really related - it's got the same number of quavers per bar, but has two strong beats (ONE and and two and and ONE and and two and and) rather than three (ONE and two and three and ONE and two and three and). I think 6/8 and 12/8 show up occasionally in dance music because they still have an even number of strong beats and can be beatmatched over 4/4 (and don't confuse dancers by making them dance asymmetrically). Clownstep's in 12/8, for instance - it's essentially the same as 4/4 with a triplet feel.

All the polkas I know (admittedly not very many) are in 2/4 with a bit of a 4/4 feel - wikipedia suggests you might be thinking of polskas, which are in 3/4.

[/folk geek]
 
D

DJ PIMP

Well-known member
michael said:
Stefan Bodzin's 'Pendulum'
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StePHan!!! Pendulum is still pretty hot... I can't think of many tracks that thrum.

BT makes some horrible music. Binary Universe huh? no kidding... his material is so devoid of humanity it's like listening to reptiles masturbate.
 
slim jenkins

slim jenkins

El Hombre Invisible
Some folk just don't seem to be born with a sense of rhythm when it comes to dancing. Perhaps they can be taught, I don't know.

When I was DJing Jungle/D'n'B back in the mid-90s quite a few people came up and said they liked it but couldn't dance to it. Others looked like they were trying to keep up with the drums...I think they were students...:slanted: I recall saying something like 'Follow the bass line'...:D. Not wishing to create class war conflict here, but those without rhythm on the 'floor that I've known personally have all been middle-class! True. Us proles, meanwhile, well, it's born right in us.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Pffft, I grew up in a Radio 4-listening house, and even I know to dance to the bass. Trying to keep up with the d in d'n'b is only going to make you look like an epileptic.
 
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