Bear Stearns...

IdleRich

IdleRich
"No. I mentioned up-thread that the majority of the collateral in the higher-rated tranches of these deals is still performing. As soon as investors realise that (which might take some time) we're going to see a lot of mark-to-market losses reversed."
Yes, I think you're right that completely abandoning these things would be seen by the industry as throwing out the baby with the bathwater. On the other hand the industry is notoriously sheep-like so maybe with all this bad press and the complications there will be a fairly major step-back. I agree with you though, I don't see this as a fundamental change in the way banks do business - ready to be proven wrong though as always.
 

vimothy

yurp
Wonderfully lucid explanation of how it all went tits up:

Remarks of John C. Dugan, Comptroller of the Currency, Before the Global Association of Risk Professionals, New York, NY, February 27, 2008

Our work in the Joint Forum has focused on a critical characteristic of triple A-rated super-senior ABS CDO securities that may have lead them to perform quite differently than other types of triple A-rated securities, such as individual corporate securities. Many of you in this audience will be familiar with this characteristic, which is the fact that the extremely broad range of subprime loans underlying a super senior tranche of an ABS CDO effectively diversifies away idiosyncratic risk. Peculiar or idiosyncratic circumstances could well apply to a single corporate issuer in a way that would cause that issuer to default on a triple A-rated obligation. But similarly unique circumstances with respect to a handful of subprime mortgages in a widely diversified CDO pool are unlikely to lead to a default on the CDO’s triple A-rated super-senior obligation.

On the other hand, the CDO pool remains very exposed to systematic risk: if an event occurs that leads to subprime losses generally, then losses on the super-senior tranche are likely to be extreme. Put another way, as one of our Joint Forum authors has put it, these notes can be expected to perform well under most conditions, but in times of severe systematic stress they may incur exceptionally large losses.

Because of the difference in the composition of risk – that is, the difference in the balance between indiosyncratic and systematic risk – I would argue that triple A-rated super-senior tranches of ABS CDOs perform fundamentally differently from triple A-rated corporate securities. I also suspect that, while many sophisticated risk managers may have grasped this distinction, many others did not.​
 

vimothy

yurp
Also been thinking about a few facts, re the UK and global financial crisis:

The finance sector makes up one third of Britain's entire economic output... and last year accounted for nearly HALF of UK GDP growth...

It pays one third of all corporation tax... and contributes a surplus of nearly £20 billion to the trade balance...

There are now more finance sector workers in Britain than there are construction workers, farmers and factory workers COMBINED...​

The situation here could be much worse than in the US. Are we totally fucked?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Wonderfully lucid explanation of how it all went tits up:"
So, I read him as saying that if you diversify your portfolio to have in it lots of different securities of one type each of which is risky you are insulated from the effects of any one of them going wrong by that diversity - however if the whole type itself goes tits up you are in trouble. Furthermore CDOs are a security where this second kind of (systematic) failure could occur.

"The situation here could be much worse than in the US. Are we totally fucked?"
Who knows - everyone hates the city and is always happy to see job cuts being announced but it seems that it has been the main driver of the economy for years. You can see why it pisses people off, in the good times the bankers are making more money than anyone else and running up £100k drinks tabs, in the bad times the instruments they have created are threatening to destroy the economy and wipe-out people's savings (or at least this is the perception). Still, fund managers being fired is probably not a good thing for any of us. I was just talking to someone who said that the only people who will care if people lose jobs in the city will be swimming pool manufacturers who will find themselves out of a job - I'm thinking "what about the guy who sells stuff the swimming pool manufacturer likes to buy?".
 

vimothy

yurp
I thought Duggan's remarks were interesting because they describe what Taleb calls the "ludic fallacy" perfectly. Diversify "risk", put AAA ratings on and then everything's great, until it's not.

Pretty funny, IMO.

Uber-geeks might also like to check out this report from the OCC. Highlight:

MAM915-chart1.gif
 

vimothy

yurp
On it goes...

Alistair Darling is giving Britain's banks a £50bn cash injection to help cushion the impact of the global credit crunch.

The Chancellor is taking the unprecedented step as fears grow of a slump in the housing market.

Lenders have not been passing on recent rate interest cuts and the cost of mortgages has been rising sharply.

Under his proposals banks will be allowed to swap potentially risky mortgage debts for Government-backed bonds.​
 

vimothy

yurp
Anyone else see this?

Ambac lost 96 percent of its stock market value the past year after losses from insuring collateralized debt obligations raised speculation that the company and its competitors would be stripped of AAA ratings, crippling their business. The slump sparked concern the $524 billion of bonds insured by Ambac would also lose their top rankings, triggering forced sales and losses for states, municipalities, investment banks and mutual funds.

Bond issuers are already treating the company like it got downgraded by Moody's Investors Service and Standard & Poor's, Callen said. Ambac's new business fell 87 percent last quarter, the company said April 23 in announcing a loss of $1.66 billion.​

Except it didn't get downgraded and has somehow managed to keep its AAA / Aaa rating.
 

vimothy

yurp
But does anyone actually still believe that the ratings mean anything?

I guess that significant numbers don't, but I also guess that the ratings agencies are preparing the ground for another disaster like the late '80s, early '90s junk bond insurance fiasco, only with mortgage backed securities instead of junk bonds.

I dunno. I think that the ratings are still important... if deluded.
 

vimothy

yurp
Yeah, I wasn't that impressed either.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb in The Times:


Last May, Taleb published The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable. It said, among many other things, that most economists, and almost all bankers, are subhuman and very, very dangerous. They live in a fantasy world in which the future can be controlled by sophisticated mathematical models and elaborate risk-management systems. Bankers and economists scorned and raged at Taleb. He didn’t understand, they said. A few months later, the full global implications of the sub-prime-driven credit crunch became clear. The world banking system still teeters on the edge of meltdown. Taleb had been vindicated. “It was my greatest vindication. But to me that wasn’t a black swan; it was a white swan. I knew it would happen and I said so. It was a black swan to Ben Bernanke [the chairman of the Federal Reserve]. I wouldn’t use him to drive my car. These guys are dangerous. They’re not qualified in their own field.”

In December he lectured bankers at Société Générale, France’s second biggest bank. He told them they were sitting on a mountain of risks – a menagerie of black swans. They didn’t believe him. Six weeks later the rogue trader and black swan Jérôme Kerviel landed them with $7.2 billion of losses.

As a result, Taleb is now the hottest thinker in the world. He has a $4m advance on his next book. He gives about 30 presentations a year to bankers, economists, traders, even to Nasa, the US Fire Administration and the Department of Homeland Security. But he doesn’t tell them what to do – he doesn’t know. He just tells them how the world is. “I’m not a guru. I’m just describing a problem and saying, ‘You deal with it.’”...​
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Yeah, I wasn't that impressed either"
Turns out it's more of a taster for his book than anything else, in that particular article he just rehashes a lot of what has been said before and gets annoyed about it. I'll still read the next installment though which should be out today.
 

hucks

Your Message Here
If anything, today's piece is even worse (evidently there's a book coming out), where they manage to link lotteries for school applications with the closing of local post offices in some spurious "war on middle income England" thesis.

There's a good bit in Black Swan where Taleb goes on about how everyone wnats him to tell them wthat the Black Swans for the next five years are going to be. He doesn't know! That's the point of the book! Jeez.....
 

hucks

Your Message Here
I've seen a couple (like Larry Elliott's -- but that's fairly silly from what I've read). I guess there's going to be loads on the way very soon. Meantime, check out this free compilation of columns on the subprime crisis from the inestimable VoxEU.

Nice one, cheers.

I think Fantasy Island by Larry Elliot might be a better book than the more recent one (Gods that failed), I think, not least because it was a prediction, rather than an Itoldyouso.
It is entirely about the UK, though, and not really about sub-prime etc.
 

vimothy

yurp
And what's going on with Freddie & Fannie?

And has anyone seen this badman respond? Pretty tasty right now:

UltraShort Financials ProShares seeks daily investment results, before fees and expenses, that correspond to twice (200%) the inverse (opposite) of the daily performance of the Dow Jones U.S. Financials Index​
 

swears

preppy-kei
Was just thinking the other day, was there this much doom-mongering before the last recession in the early 90s?
 
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