Hipsters: Scourge or Irrelevence

zhao

there are no accidents
and as such, i am smarter, better looking, more stylish/interesting/fuckable/authentic/genuine /creative/worthy of your attention/admiration than those that belong in either camp. :p

OK all (real ego-mania disguised as) kidding aside, Hal Foster to thread!

... (Pluralism) is a situation that grants a kind of equivalence; art of many sorts is made to seem more or less equal - equally (un)important. Art becomes an arena not of dialectical dialogue but of vested interests, of licensed sects: in lieu of culture we have cults. The result is an eccentricity that leads, in art as in politics, to a new conformity: pluralism as an institution.

Posed as a freedom to choose, the pluralist position plays right into the ideology of the "free market" ... Indeed, the freedom of art today is announced by some as the "end of ideology" and the "end of the dialectic"- an announcement that, however naive, makes this ideology all the more devious. In effect, the demise of one style (e.e., minimalism) or one type of criticism (e.e., formalism) or even one period (e.g., late modernism) tends to be mistaken for the death of all such formulations. Such a death is vital to pluralism: for with ideology and dialectic somehow slain, we enter a state that seems like grace, a state that allows, extraordinarily, for all styles - pluralism. Such innocence in the face of history implies a serious misconstrual of the historicity of art and society. It also implies a failure of criticism.

When formalism prevailed, art tended to be self-critical. ... When formalism fell, even this attitude was largely lost. Free before of other discourses, art now seemed free from its own discourse. and soon it appeared that all criticism, once so crucial to art practice, had lost its cogency. ... We are free - of what, we think we know. But where are we left? The present in art has a strange form, at once full and empty, and a strange tense, a sort of neo-now moment of "arriere-avant-gardism." Many artists borrow promiscuously from both historical and modern art. But these references rarely engage the source - let alone the present - deeply. And the typical artist is often "foot-loose in time, culture and metaphor": a dilettante because he thinks that , as he entertains the past, he is beyond the exigency of the present; a dunce because he assumes a delusion; and a dangling man because historical moment - our present problematic - is lost.

Modern art ENGAGED historical forms, often in order to deconstruct them. Our new art tends to ASSUME historical forms - out of context and reified. Parodic or straight, these quotations plead for the importance, even the traditional status, of the new art. In certain quarters this is seen as a "return to history"; but it is in fact a profoundly ahistorical enterprise, and the result is often "aesthetic pleasure as false consciousness, or vice versa".

This "return to history" is ahistorical for three reasons: the context of history is disregarded, its continuum is disavowed, and conflictual forms of art and modes of production are falsely resolved in pastiche. Neither the specificity of the past nor the necessity of the present is heeded. Such a disregard makes the return to history also seem to be a liberation from history. And today many artists do feel that, free of history, they are able to use it as they wish. ...

To be unaware of historical or social limits is not to be free of them; one is all the more subjected. ... So it is that the freedom of art today is forced (both false and compelled): a willful naivete that masquerades as jouissance, a promiscuity misconceived as pleasure. Marcuse noted how the old tactics of (sexual) liberation, so subversive in a society of production, have come to serve the status quo of our society of consumption: he termed this "repressive desublimation." Similarly, pluralism in art signals a form of tolerance that does not threaten the status quo.

... Art became skittishly stylish - everyone had to be different... in the same way. ... as Adorno remarked, "the official culture's pretense of individualism...necessarily increases in proportion to the liquidation of the individual." Meanwhile, the conventions of art are not in decline but in extraordinary expansion. ...

... an art of "effect"... cannot escape its own condition of hysterical futility. It strains for effects only to degenerate into postures, and these postures have no relief: the emerge flat and ephemeral...

... The victim here is not the historicist model of an autonomous, causal line of "influence," but rather the dialectical model that demands radical, materialist innovation. It is this history that tends to be denied, only to be replaced by history as a monument (or ruin) - a store of styles, symbols, etc., to plunder... Rather than explore this condition of cliched styles and prescriptive codes (as Barthes and Derrida have done), many artists today merely exploit it, and either produce images that are easy to consume or indulge in stylistic references - often in such a way that the past is entertained precisely as publicity. The artist innocent today is a dilettante who, bound to modernist irony, flaunts alienation as if it were freedom.
 
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swears

preppy-kei
Yeah, I like that Hal Foster essay. This is what I'm going on about when I say "eclectism" is not automatically a good thing! (In fact it's generally played out)
 

swears

preppy-kei
Recommend me some "hipster" bars/clubs in London to impress my gf, going down with her for the weekend soonish. Haven't been out in London for a couple of years, and then it was usually just big, clubby places like Fabric.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
I think the hip hip kids are all around either Hackney Wick or Limehouse nowadays, best looking crowd I've seen in ages was at the George

http://www.myspace.com/thegeorgetavern

Gorgeous porcelain rockabilly girls and Horrors boys in suits. Music was shite though, but the people looked good. I'm old though.

I'm gonna be playing in Liverpool in October swears so you gotta come down.
 

STN

sou'wester
Why does everything list its age as 101?

The Electricity Showrooms is okay. I think there may be hipsters there, or maybe it's just like going out in the west end, I prefer to stay in with a Vimto, though I shall be exploring Wapping soon.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The Foundry is sort of the epicentre of Shoreditch-ness* (although, as mistersloane says, whether Shoreditch is still where it's at these days is up for debate) - anyway, it was opened by Bill Drummond and functions as a filthy drinking hole (good organic bottled beers from the Pitfield brewery - check out their Shoreditch Stout :)), 'art space' (varies from half-decent to laughable GCSE standard) and occasional performance venue. Haven't been there for some time, but I remember there being a basement with a big steel turntable thing - from its time as an actual foundry, I guess - that you could stand on and use to spin yourself round.


*the other candidate for this would be the Mother bar/333 club - check out their website, it's Barley-tastic: http://www.333mother.com/
 
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Shonx

Shallow House
The Foundry is sort of the epicentre of Shoreditch-ness* (although, as mistersloane says, whether Shoreditch is still where it's at these days is up for debate) - anyway, it was opened by Bill Drummond and functions as a filthy drinking hole (good organic bottled beers from the Pitfield brewery - check out their Shoreditch Stout :)), 'art space' (varies from half-decent to laughable GCSE standard) and occasional performance venue. Haven't been there for some time, but I remember there being a basement with a big steel turntable thing - from its time as an actual foundry, I guess - that you could stand on and use to spin yourself round.

I've been there a few times. I think if it was hip it wasn't whilst I was there. I kind of like the art space. Well I like the people coming up and persuading drunks to take in some art and failing. I thought it was all part of the performance.
 

CHAOTROPIC

on account
The Foundry is sort of the epicentre of Shoreditch-ness* (although, as mistersloane says, whether Shoreditch is still where it's at these days is up for debate) - anyway, it was opened by Bill Drummond and functions as a filthy drinking hole (good organic bottled beers from the Pitfield brewery - check out their Shoreditch Stout :)), 'art space' (varies from half-decent to laughable GCSE standard) and occasional performance venue. Haven't been there for some time, but I remember there being a basement with a big steel turntable thing - from its time as an actual foundry, I guess - that you could stand on and use to spin yourself round.

It's right next to where I work, so it's my local. Lovely comfy ripped-up sofas, good beer, squat-filthy, a nice grubby baby grand you can tinkle on & they don't mind two guys necking (it's probably 'hip') . I have NO fucking clue about the punters. 'Beautiful people' they're not unless Castro beards & pot bellies are beautiful. Which they probably are to, I dunno, goats. Every now & again someone comes round all public-school excitable to lure you to some kindof happening downstairs, which everyone ignores. Then lonely beats & shouting emanate from below, over the noise of the bogs.
 

CHAOTROPIC

on account
Recommend me some "hipster" bars/clubs in London to impress my gf, going down with her for the weekend soonish. Haven't been out in London for a couple of years, and then it was usually just big, clubby places like Fabric.

Yeah, the clubs there are all rubbish honeytraps. Shoreditch is all about holding as big & exclusive a night as possible in some crappy old boozer & kicking out at 3am for afterparties in all the hipster-rented houses in the area. You can walk down there in the early morning & just gatecrash like crazy if you want to, just wait for staggering pilled-up wretches to come back from beer-runs & follow them in.

VIce's pub, the Old Blue Last is full of braying trustfund munters but their SHOUT night once a month on a, I think, Thursday, is probably the biggest collection of real-deal hipsters you're going to get in London. Most dolled-up crowd of straight people I've seen in ages. The Macbeth pub on Hoxton Street is becoming a key place now, lots of live music, loads of nights, some totally empty, some really crammed. Then there's Hoxton Bar & Kitchen in Hoxton Square, where they used to do Boombox, which has now kindof mutated into something called Ponystep which pretty much every model, social-climbing musician or wannabe goes to. Just rammed with rich, absurdly pretty, dressed-up kids.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Ahh yes, the Old Blue Last - I had quite a funny evening there a few years ago on my girlfriend's birthday, we were in the upstairs room with some of the Kosmische (is that night still going?) DJs playing weird spacey krautrock and the combination of that and the general preponderance of hipsters forced a friend of mine who was on mushrooms to seek solace elsewhere...we ended up that night at a rave in a rec ground out by Lea Bridge, surrounded by some decidedly un-hipsterish people. :)
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
"best looking crowd I've seen in ages was at the George

http://www.myspace.com/thegeorgetavern

Gorgeous porcelain rockabilly girls and Horrors boys in suits. Music was shite though, but the people looked good."
I was there the other night actually. There weren't many people there beautiful or otherwise but the music was pretty good - probably not the same night. Nice place I think.
The Old Blue Last is definitely hipster central but on a weekend it's so full of them you can't move or hear yourself speak or do anything really - pretty much my idea of hell.
That little area of Bethnal Green where there are loads of new art galleries and that Bistrotheque place is kind of trying to position itself as the new Shoreditch, there is a kind of trendy pub there which blares out music on a Sunday for people who haven't been to bed for a few days. I think Bistrotheque is pretty nice although it never seems to be open when I've been round there recently.
Viner or Vyner Street is what it's called I think.
 

bunnnnnn

Well-known member
Ahh yes, the Old Blue Last - I had quite a funny evening there a few years ago on my girlfriend's birthday, we were in the upstairs room with some of the Kosmische (is that night still going?) DJs playing weird spacey krautrock and the combination of that and the general preponderance of hipsters forced a friend of mine who was on mushrooms to seek solace elsewhere...we ended up that night at a rave in a rec ground out by Lea Bridge, surrounded by some decidedly un-hipsterish people. :)


Our Kosmische stint at the Old Blue Last didn't last too long (they indulged us for maybe 4 months or so?) but it was quite fun while it lasted. They gave us the brush off cos our punters weren't drinking enough beer for their liking. We're still doing the occasional night here and there (last one was with Silver Apples at Corsica Studios in the oh-so-achingly-hip Elephant and Castle) and we're still playing our Neu and Cluster records on Resonance FM every week.

OT I know, but since you ask ;-)
 

tom pr

Well-known member
i actually think vice is unequivocally a force for good these days.. seeing the piece on the grime youngers in this month's issue was quite significant i think. if they were true dilettantes they would have dropped that shit years ago.
i doubt it was deliberate, but someone showed me that piece and it was basically what i wrote for woofah but with a tenth of the words. sad face.
 

tom pr

Well-known member
anyway, isn't it basically only prancehall who ever writes about grime in vice, and he's said before that nobody at vice care about it, they just like his writing? i've got nothing against vice, but if it's only one person in the magazine's uk edition pushing grime then they're not really pushing it.
 

mos dan

fact music
anyway, isn't it basically only prancehall who ever writes about grime in vice, and he's said before that nobody at vice care about it, they just like his writing? i've got nothing against vice, but if it's only one person in the magazine's uk edition pushing grime then they're not really pushing it.

yeah but come on, whether it's cos they like his writing or cos they like grime, they're still publishing it. they could just as easily ask him to write about something else.

and by the anti-hipster theory they should have started hating in 2005 when 'run the road' came out and stopped mentioning it completely by the end of that year.

further, if you look at the visual iconography of grime, the likes of alex sturrock and jamie-james medina are pretty integral to it, and that work was all done at/for vice. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2191/2359843788_ac5effe31e_o.jpg

but anyway your first post, about the grime youngers piece.. yeah, that sucks, i hate that shit. i've had time out take a full feature pitch off me before and just get a staff writer to do it on the sly while they tell me they've changed their minds.. grr.
 
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