Dawkins' Atheist Bus

[mixed_biscuits]

And really, I do think that it's a perfectly legitimate criticism of Christian dogma to ask, why is God a "he"...?

God is easier to understand if He is anthropomorphised. Given that men tend to be in charge in society (and that Jesus refers to 'God the Father'), 'He' would be a logical choice.

I don't see Christianity as being a particularly oppressive force in those countries near me that are predominantly Christian (ie. a lot of Europe).

 

[nomadthethird]

God is easier to understand if He is anthropomorphised. Given that men tend to be in charge in society (and that Jesus refers to 'God the Father'), 'He' would be a logical choice.

I don't see Christianity as being a particularly oppressive force in those countries near me that are predominantly Christian (ie. a lot of Europe).

Roffle.

Yeah, we just gave women the right to vote and own property (long after we gave it to slaves) like 60 whole years ago! And they even get to learn to read now if they want to.

 

[nomadthethird]

Nothing like making up some HeMan in the Sky (Abraham) to convince people that they need to start passing down land patrilineally. But God told me--you all have to listen to me...I mean HIM! Plus, I get to have all the wives I want, do anything I want to, and do all of the owning and bossing around.

Oh, and those "pagan" cultures where women are priestesses and actually take part in society outside of the kitchen? They're evil and HeMan in the sky is going to kill them all and keep them out of Paradise (where we go, as long as we follow my--I mean HIS--rules)...

Ok, now write this down:

Thou shalt not kill. (Unless it's a warring tribe or a pagan one.)

Thou shalt not commit adultry. (Unless you're a man.)

...

 

[nomadthethird]

Also homosexuality is an "abomination"... (Leviticus)

On par with the other ones--not doing ritual hand washings, eating non-kosher foods, and sleeping with goyim I imagine.

Women shouldn't speak in church. (Paul)

Yes, because men, as research suggests, do not in fact score lower on "logical aptitude" exams than women do. Mixed_biscuits, you believe in those, right?

Men are also the "head" of the church and the household. (Paul)

Because... their penis might fall off if they're not, I imagine.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

By a male God being a 'logical' choice I meant that one would expect patriarchal societies to fashion Him in their own image.

As for the rest of what you're saying, I don't approve of Christians who take their religion's teachings without a pinch of salt and reference to their own experiences and their social context. Nor do I personally know any who are so literal-minded. My experience of Christians in the UK is of unassuming occasional do-gooders.

In fact the Anglican church here is famous for its noncommital inoffensiveness.

As Chris has already said, the picture of Christianity that you have is extreme.

 

[nomadthethird]

By a male God being a 'logical' choice I meant that one would expect patriarchal societies to fashion Him in their own image.

As for the rest of what you're saying, I don't approve of Christians who take their religion's teachings without a pinch of salt and reference to their own experiences and their social context. Nor do I know any personally who are so literal-minded. My experience of Christians in the UK is of uncontroversial occasional do-gooders.

In fact the Anglican church here is famous for its noncommital inoffensiveness.

But the interesting fact about Abrahamic religions is, well, Abraham left Babylon, which was far less "patriarchal", to create a partriarchal society.

And most of Christianity bears no resemblence to the Anglican church.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

And most of Christianity bears no resemblence to the Anglican church.

Perhaps, but I don't get particularly fevered vibes from the Catholics on the East European side of my family either.

 

[nomadthethird]

As Chris has already said, the picture of Christianity that you have is extreme.

Oh it is?

Methinks you may be out of touch with what the mainstream is in Christianity in most of the world, Mixed Biscuits.

Hmmm let's find some nice American Christian websites for Mixed Biscuits.

The morality of rape. By Vox Day. One of the internet's best Fundamentalists.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47735

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Should a Christian woman work outside the home?
http://www.thechristianwoman.com/christian-women-topics/should-christian-mother-work.html

Just for fun, peruse this GEM, very popular in the US, regarded highly among evangelical Christians:

Focus on the Family

There are hours of fun to be had on that one alone.

If none of that is bad enough, search Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson on google and have a blast.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Thanks for that - they're just idiots.

 

[nomadthethird]

Perhaps, but I don't get particularly fevered vibes from the Catholics on the East European side of my family either.

It doesn't even matter if there aren't crazy fundamentalists in the U.K., anyway, because the fact remains, Christianity was used, and it was used for centuries, thousands of years, as a justification for keeping women out of institutions, out of civic life, out of schools, and relegated to the domestic sphere.

Many, many, many Christians even still try to use their beliefs as a justification for keeping women from enjoying greater equity under the law. Not just fundamentalists, either.

Just go ahead and try to deny that.

 

[nomadthethird]

It is used as a justification for murder, for hating gays, for killing gays, for hating people with different skin color, for killing them, for segregation, for just about everything horrible and backward I can think of.

At what point is enough enough? At what point can you look at a tradition, and at an institution, and realize that it has almost nothing to offer us anymore? Except maybe division and destruction and plane hijackings and stupidity?

 

[nomadthethird]

Thanks for that - they're just idiots.

They're just idiots with a whole lot of political clout, who continue to find their way into political discourse and hijack any sane attempt to keep them out of it.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

It is used as a justification for murder, for hating gays, for killing gays, for hating people with different skin color, for killing them, for segregation, for just about everything horrible and backward I can think of.

At what point is enough enough? At what point can you look at a tradition, and at an institution, and realize that it has almost nothing to offer us anymore? Except maybe division and destruction and plane hijackings and stupidity?

I would concur if my personal experience of Christianity as it is now chimed with yours but it doesn't!

 

[nomadthethird]

I would concur if my personal experience of Christianity as it is now chimed with yours but it doesn't!

It doesn't matter what your personal experience of Christianity as it is now is.

Christians in the American South lynched blacks. They did. Whether you like that or not, they did it. Using Christianity as a justification, more often than not.

 

[nomadthethird]

Catholics killed thousands of Jews and protestants. Thousands upon thousands of them.

For God's greater glory.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

It is used as a justification for murder, for hating gays, for killing gays...

Christianity has also been used as justification for an endless parade of good acts - just think of the thousands of Christian charities.

It has also provided solace to countless people - whether this consolation is illusory or not is almost by the by.

 

[nomadthethird]

Christianity has also been used as justification for an endless parade of good acts - just think of the thousands of Christian charities.

It has also provided solace to countless people - whether this consolation is illusory or not is almost by the by.

You don't need a Flying Spaghetti Monster to do something nice for someone else.

This is the Great Lie, the Great Big Fallacy that leads to Inquisitions.

An ethical act is not ethical because the Flying Spaghetti Monster told you to do it, it's an ethical act because you know it's the right thing to do even in the absence of all Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

You don't need a Flying Spaghetti Monster to do something nice for someone else.

This is the Great Lie, the Great Big Fallacy that leads to Inquisitions.

An ethical act is not ethical because the Flying Spaghetti Monster told you to do it, it's an ethical act because you know it's the right thing to do even in the absence of all Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

It could be said that it is not because of divine injunctions that Christians do good deeds, but because the religion instils the habit of thinking ethically (esp. about those who supposedly lie outside your sphere of interest: tax collectors, prostitutes, lepers...).

 

[nomadthethird]

It could be said that it is not because of divine injunctions that Christians do good deeds, but because the religion instils the habit of thinking ethically (esp. about those who supposedly lie outside your sphere of interest: tax collectors, prostitutes, lepers...).

Oh yes, Christians are excellent at being "ethical" to those who "lie outside" their "sphere of interest."

That must be why the Catholic church used to send pregnant teens to asylums, while the fathers of the children got to roam free.

 

[nomadthethird]

That must be why homosexuals are evil, and must be excommunicated from the Church, but child molester priests who are basically caught red-handed molesting dozens of young boys basically get a slap on the wrist from their Diocese.