Rolling Rugby Thread
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
ah shit, Cooper's off injured. it's been almost comically bad for him. 
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
McCaw didn't mention France ONCE in his interview. What a twat! Lucky, lucky New Zealand - on the day they were second best. Overall, they were worthy champions though, but their backs did less than nothing tonight.
God, and Graham Henry too! Moving from being happy for them to disliking them. Bad winners.
God, and Graham Henry too! Moving from being happy for them to disliking them. Bad winners.
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
God, still can't believe this. French back row were unbelievable. I completely thought they'd be overrun as a team before this match. McCaw got owned (even though he still played well), just as he owned Pocock last week.
Both France and Argentina (in the first half of their match - try of the tournament, no doubt) showed that this vintage ABs are shaky when you aggressively take the game to them. if I were South African, I'd be furious....I think they had the wherewithal to win the cup, only to blow it utterly vs Oz. As a Welsh supporter, I think NZ would have beaten Wales more comfortably in the final, so hats off to France for producing arguably the performance of the tournament.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5838377/Stat-attack-World-Cup-final-by-the-numbers - that NZ tackle count seems to be wrong though! Again, repulsive lack of sportsmanship by captain and coach in acting like they'd won the final easily by 20 points (I can imagine Dan Carter having been far more gracious though, had he been playing). I will look forward to them losing their crown.
Both France and Argentina (in the first half of their match - try of the tournament, no doubt) showed that this vintage ABs are shaky when you aggressively take the game to them. if I were South African, I'd be furious....I think they had the wherewithal to win the cup, only to blow it utterly vs Oz. As a Welsh supporter, I think NZ would have beaten Wales more comfortably in the final, so hats off to France for producing arguably the performance of the tournament.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5838377/Stat-attack-World-Cup-final-by-the-numbers - that NZ tackle count seems to be wrong though! Again, repulsive lack of sportsmanship by captain and coach in acting like they'd won the final easily by 20 points (I can imagine Dan Carter having been far more gracious though, had he been playing). I will look forward to them losing their crown.
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luka
Well-known member
i think the all blacks are easily the most likeabl of sports teams. all seem very humble mccaw in particular. wasnt crowing at all. he said he was buggered basically. what is he supposed to do? say oh we dont deserve this, i cant possibly accept it, give it to sam warburton to make up for his disappointment
luka
Well-known member
what mccaw actually said, as opposed to what he said in baboons fantasyland
McCaw said: "I'm shagged. We had to dig deeper than we had ever done so before and we have to pay tribute to France – we knew we were in for a hell of a game. We stuck to our guns and it said everything about the men we have in this team. We did not play our best rugby but we did enough."
McCaw said: "I'm shagged. We had to dig deeper than we had ever done so before and we have to pay tribute to France – we knew we were in for a hell of a game. We stuck to our guns and it said everything about the men we have in this team. We did not play our best rugby but we did enough."
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
That's a misquote from elsewhere in the media Luka (or at the least pasted together later from several interviews, and said much later when someone had had a word with him), which you'll see if you watch the actual first interview (1:46:12): http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=283295. The words 'France' or 'French' are not mentioned - McCaw is faux-humble, and he'll never go down as a great in the rugby world at large (unlike say Carter or Lomu, who are universally respected), because so many people think he's a cheat (I myself am ambivalent about this, my dislike for him stems from today).
I wasn't saying that he shouldn't have accepted the praise, just that he should have been more gracious in a game where the ABs were clinging on in the second half, and where there were two better back row players on the field than him (by common consent of neutrals). France had been gracious the previous week when they in turn had been outplayed, much as I disliked their performance, as (I think) had Australia after their fortunate victory over SA. Fitzpatrick was fair in his analysis - great player and commentator. It's not an anti-NZ thing, just an anti-Henry and McCaw thing.
I was really surprised Dagg didn't turn up today; he was the star of last week's victory. Similarly with Jane and Weepu. The ABs are certainly the best team in the world in general, no argument about that, but they went from sublime to being flairless in the backs between last week and this. I'd've been interested to have seen a NZ-SA semi-final.
Guess I'm also a bit bored of being told about supposed Southern hemisphere dominance/better back play. SH sides are definitely better in closing games out, no argument, and the SH-NH score of 6-1 bears that out clearly, but both England and France made better line breaks in the last two finals than SA or NZ. Seems that the SH sides don't trust their backs in the final analysis.
[I thought Australia had the best backs in the world pre-tournament, but hey - where was the evidence when it really counted (OK, Beale had injury problems, and he's prob the best of all to be fair, but still)?]
Plus, refereeing today! NZ can hardly complain about 2007 (though they would be justified in doing so in isolation)...
As for the game itself, I'd say it was the most exciting of all the WC finals I've seen (didn't see all of 2003). France remain the most thrilling team in world rugby bar none when on song, although my faith in that was rigorously tested over the past few weeks. However, a minor point but utterly bemusing observation: what the fuck was up with both Parra(?) and Weepu kicking the ball out for the end of the first half in semi-final and final respectively, when their team had good possession? Hopelessly negative and completely unremarked upon by ITV - I've rarely seen anything so bizarre.
I wasn't saying that he shouldn't have accepted the praise, just that he should have been more gracious in a game where the ABs were clinging on in the second half, and where there were two better back row players on the field than him (by common consent of neutrals). France had been gracious the previous week when they in turn had been outplayed, much as I disliked their performance, as (I think) had Australia after their fortunate victory over SA. Fitzpatrick was fair in his analysis - great player and commentator. It's not an anti-NZ thing, just an anti-Henry and McCaw thing.
I was really surprised Dagg didn't turn up today; he was the star of last week's victory. Similarly with Jane and Weepu. The ABs are certainly the best team in the world in general, no argument about that, but they went from sublime to being flairless in the backs between last week and this. I'd've been interested to have seen a NZ-SA semi-final.
Guess I'm also a bit bored of being told about supposed Southern hemisphere dominance/better back play. SH sides are definitely better in closing games out, no argument, and the SH-NH score of 6-1 bears that out clearly, but both England and France made better line breaks in the last two finals than SA or NZ. Seems that the SH sides don't trust their backs in the final analysis.
[I thought Australia had the best backs in the world pre-tournament, but hey - where was the evidence when it really counted (OK, Beale had injury problems, and he's prob the best of all to be fair, but still)?]
Plus, refereeing today! NZ can hardly complain about 2007 (though they would be justified in doing so in isolation)...
As for the game itself, I'd say it was the most exciting of all the WC finals I've seen (didn't see all of 2003). France remain the most thrilling team in world rugby bar none when on song, although my faith in that was rigorously tested over the past few weeks. However, a minor point but utterly bemusing observation: what the fuck was up with both Parra(?) and Weepu kicking the ball out for the end of the first half in semi-final and final respectively, when their team had good possession? Hopelessly negative and completely unremarked upon by ITV - I've rarely seen anything so bizarre.
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baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Not bitter, you clearly haven't watched the actual McCaw and Henry interviews straight after the match, which I just have for the second time! No mention of France from either McCaw or Henry. Really poor; even Woodward (who I hate) had the good grace to mention the contribution of the Australians when interviewed after the 2003 final, or so I remember (may be wrong on this though, it's eight years ago; the video shows tht I'm right about today). As I say, I'm also not the only person to note this - quite a few people think less of the ABs because of their lack of magnaminity in victory. France were immense, and that should've been recognised by the winning captain/coach immediately. Made it sound like they won easily by not mentioning the opposition. Even most football managers/captains are better than this.
SA-NZ - true, but I think it would have been a closer semi than Aus-NZ (still not sure how Aus won that game - Matfield giving away the vital penalty was a bit harsh given his generla immensity in that game, but, well, he shouldn't have broken the laws...).
luka
Well-known member
its true i didnt watch the intereviews or i was too drunk to listen to thm but im unlikely to base my opinion of people whose careers i have been following for many years on the basis of a single post-match interview in any case. nz struggled to live up to the occassion, the opposite applies to the french.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
It's just extremely bad form to neglect to mention the other team, esp after they've bested you. Smacks of extreme arrogance, however they may come across in other interviews.
Another point from this WC, made by many others but I'm too ignorant of rules regarding forward play to know the truth of it, is that many key matches seem to be being settled on the ref's interpretation of the rules. Key one was SA-Aus. Argument goes that the IRB need to make referees' performances way more consistent, because it's becoming too much of a lottery as to who wins those extremely tight games.
Another point from this WC, made by many others but I'm too ignorant of rules regarding forward play to know the truth of it, is that many key matches seem to be being settled on the ref's interpretation of the rules. Key one was SA-Aus. Argument goes that the IRB need to make referees' performances way more consistent, because it's becoming too much of a lottery as to who wins those extremely tight games.
Sectionfive
bandwagon house
shite
craner
Beast of Burden
Correct again. Hopeless performance from Wales today. They should have won those test matches against Australia in the summer, but fully deserved to lose to the Pumas today. Diabolical. Depressing. With so much individual talent in the team, you start to ask...well, questions. I have been down the Arms Park for all the Cardiff Blues home games this season, and it felt the same...deflation, dismay. (I am an Ospreys and Neath fanat heart, but living in Cardiff the Blues are my home team by default.) The Blues have four international players. Warburton is not on top form,and is losing the lustre that the World Cup hype gave him. He has done nothing special for the Blues this year, and this seems to be continued in the red jersey. A spell in France will do Jamie Roberts the world of good. Halfpenny and Cuthbert did what they could with what they were given, so can't blame them.
Non-Blues players? The pack held up without Adam Jones, so you can't blame them. Messing around with Mike Phillips was a mistake. Shoud have started. The backs, in general, had no shape. Once the Pumas broke through, the whole thing fell apart. For a team with such potential, this was pathetic.
Not happy.
Regards, Wales.
Non-Blues players? The pack held up without Adam Jones, so you can't blame them. Messing around with Mike Phillips was a mistake. Shoud have started. The backs, in general, had no shape. Once the Pumas broke through, the whole thing fell apart. For a team with such potential, this was pathetic.
Not happy.
Regards, Wales.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Re Neath, I saw Jonathan Davies in the street the other week.
Haven't seen the highlights yet, but I guess i should put myself through it. Why was Phillips out - to do with his indiscretions in France?
Tbh, I was not wholly convinced by the Six Nations' performances this year anyways - Grand Slam or not. It wasn't exactly vintage stuff for the most part - victory against Engalnd was a bit lucky.
Haven't seen the highlights yet, but I guess i should put myself through it. Why was Phillips out - to do with his indiscretions in France?
Tbh, I was not wholly convinced by the Six Nations' performances this year anyways - Grand Slam or not. It wasn't exactly vintage stuff for the most part - victory against Engalnd was a bit lucky.
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craner
Beast of Burden
I would agree with you. The only really convincing performance I have seen from this much-lauded squad was the WC quarter final against Ireland. I seem to remember better matches being played in the 2005 and 2008 Six Nations, but that may be my dodgy memory. They have the players to do special things, there is no doubt. But they just don't do them.
Howley said he left Phillips out because he isn't available for the Australia match and they want to give this new scrum half some International experience rather than throw him in raw and untested in a few weeks time. Seems fair enough. The Western Mail is pushing the angle about penalising players who have gone to France. Who knows? Everybody is always arguing about availability, not least the Welsh Regions and the WRU. It's all to do with wages. There was a thing on the Irish system on Scrum V last week.
Howley said he left Phillips out because he isn't available for the Australia match and they want to give this new scrum half some International experience rather than throw him in raw and untested in a few weeks time. Seems fair enough. The Western Mail is pushing the angle about penalising players who have gone to France. Who knows? Everybody is always arguing about availability, not least the Welsh Regions and the WRU. It's all to do with wages. There was a thing on the Irish system on Scrum V last week.