World's Greatest Female Singers II

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
.

I have been compiling lists since the age of three and distinguishing timbres since not long after.

Do you conduct all your arguments as an arrogant battle for validation? If I can hear a clear difference I can hear a clear difference. Why do you have to throw your 'credentials' in my face?

Do you have an alternative list? That is why I started this thread, to broaden my horizons, not be told my opinion is worthless.

This from someone who just posted a list of "greatest" singers that includes Norah Jones...

Ugh.

Not. Worth. It.

I have millions of alternative lists, they change every minute, and they don't include Amy Winehouse, definitely not.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
For me any emotion I may get from a performer or a performance is immediately derailed by any technical faults I hear.

Roffle.

Yes, Amy Winehouse's voice is technically perfect, if by technically perfect you mean flat almost 50% of the time and with a range of nil.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
someone like whitney of old has the key ingredients to make a great allround singer.
she couldn't do what meredith monk or bjork do though.

I don't know--I think she might be able to approximate Bjork at least, but she has enough talent to be a technician and that's always commercially viable.

If you're looking for a technically perfect singer who has very little soul but a hell of a lot of power, I'd say Whitney Houston is it.

But hell, Aretha Franklin was a technician, too, who could approximate soul like no other. Some technicians are so good that they're noteworthy. Most couldn't write a decent song to save their lives and you'd never want to listen to them perform their own work. Ella Fitzgerald.

Grace Slick is actually a very excellent example of someone whose singing is technically very far from perfect but who sounds great, and who writes excellent, tuneful music.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Mahalia, she dead unfortunately.

I don't understand why you haven't got Mariah on that list though, if we have to go there. I'm not defending her or what she's spawned, but I think this


is a good justification of her ability.

There's also an un-pitch corrected version here ;)


My vote for best living live female singer goes to Candi Staton though. Technically she's all over the place and she can't hit the notes, but, who cares.

Mariah has a much less strained, prettier/breathier delivery than Aguilera (another technician) and the demon spawn, but what really bothers me is not Mariah's voice so much as the leagues of imitators on American Idol who sing so sharp in her honor.

I like Thelma Houston (who sounds a little like Janis Joplin) and Candi Staton a lot.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Did you? I thought you had made an assertion,



Where is the substance there?

Thesis (boombox): these are the world's greatest female vocalists

Antithesis (moi): no they're not

My response is actually pretty consistant with your initial post. How about this: rather than just put forward some undefined measures, not linked to any of the singers you favour you could explain why Norah Jones scores better on pitch, tone, range, whatever. You could explain why singers not included in the list score less well, how they score -- I mean, there's a thousand things you haven't said. All you said was 'I have judged and these are the best', but really there's nothing to support your argument except the assertion itself and a false appeal to some kind of rigorous methodology.

Anyone can do it. I have listened to thousands of singers and judged them on tone, range, pitch, control, yadda, yadda, yadda, and the greatest singers in the world are, say, Bjork, Patty Waters, Nina Simone, Lydia Lunch and some bird off the X Factor. It's a bit mundane, no?

Or to take another tack: your sample is heavily biased. Perhaps that's why at least half produce unlistenable goo. A tall building might be impressive, but is it beautiful because it's tall? Is it one of the best buildings in the world because it's tall? Maybe you should move out of New York.

In any case, I have no interest in 'marginalising opposing views' or whatever fairly pompous straw man you put forward. You have an opinion, I disagree. That is all.

I like how Boombox played the "my ear is better than yours" card first, before anyone else in this thread, and then got upset with me when I was open about my own ear training.

It's only ok when Boombox does it, apparently.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
While we're on the subject though, Diana Ross should be on the list.

Patti LaBelle.

Anita Ward.

Carrie Lucas.

Sheila E.
j/k
 
While we're on the subject though, Diana Ross should be on the list.

Patti LaBelle.

Anita Ward.

Carrie Lucas.

Sheila E.
j/k

I meant the best singers NOW.

doesn't it seem slightly absurd to post a list that you know will draw nothing but derision and then complain about the all the derisive responses? not to mention that any criteria that includes Norah Jones, Aguilera, etc. (not to mention the first list - Sheryl Crow? Alanis Morrissette?) on a list "The World's Greatest Female Singers" seems fundamentally flawed.

I thought the list might engender disagreement not empty derision. It would be more absurd to post a list that I know everybody will love, or that isn't an honest representation of my views.

It's not particularly scientific to set up an experiment and then throw out the results because they don't chime with my prejudice or expectations - "seems fundamentally flawed".
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
Say that to her face!

**

I nominate Um Kulthum (http://www.oumkalthoum.org/audio/) and Cecilia Bartoli ().

Um is of course a monolithic legend. nothing to add. Cecilia, while able to sometimes undress me before dinner is finished, at other times fall into tad bit corny territory... but surely it's the fault of those around her and the composers themselves.

a few up on my list:

Miriam Makeba
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Mpongo Love

Mbilia Bel
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and the queen of kwaito. don't know why every single version of this amazing amazing tune is shit quality on youtube. if you ever find a good quality, just turn it up as far as it will go...
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
i still can't believe she hasn't got a solo record out.

boombox how does she rank amongst your choices?

Nowhere. That's a pretty rank performance tbf. It just strikes me as high-end karaoke, but still better than the dead singers that keep on getting recommendations.

Can't seem to find a recent / well recorded live performance by mbilia bel, unfortunately.
 
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padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
It's not particularly scientific to set up an experiment and then throw out the results because they don't chime with my prejudice or expectations - "seems fundamentally flawed".

ah, I see. I didn't realize that this was in fact an "experiment" and not just a completely arbitrary list based upon personal opinion.

though, I'm curious, what are your "prejudice & expectations"? I don't mean that in a mocking way at all. do you actually *like* any of the singers you put forth? or do you just appreciate their technical precision? b/c if it's the latter we just listen to music for entirely different reasons, which would be fine of course.
 
ah, I see. I didn't realize that this was in fact an "experiment" and not just a completely arbitrary list based upon personal opinion.

that any criteria that includes Norah Jones, Aguilera, etc. (not to mention the first list - Sheryl Crow? Alanis Morrissette?) on a list "The World's Greatest Female Singers" seems fundamentally flawed

I was using an analogy in response to the clear prejudice against certain artists indicated by another poster's use of the word 'seems'

Listening to singers, with their technical ability in mind, formed my opinion. That is not arbitrary. It is based on something concrete, albeit filtered through my sense of hearing, unique to me (unknowable and entirely baffling to others)

So, do you want a supercomputer to do the list for me, or is it just that you don't agree with my opinions?

do you actually *like* any of the singers you put forth? or do you just appreciate their technical precision? b/c if it's the latter we just listen to music for entirely different reasons... .

Some I like listening to, some I don't. However, it's hard to get lost in a performance when somebody is singing the wrong notes or screeching or...surely it's the same for you?

...which would be fine of course.

Cheers, I was getting worried there.
 
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josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
Um is of course a monolithic legend. nothing to add. Cecilia, while able to sometimes undress me before dinner is finished, at other times fall into tad bit corny territory... but surely it's the fault of those around her and the composers themselves.

Great videos...

Cecilia always sounds like she is having a... really good time.
 
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