your favorite junglist auteur

[luka]

no i really do

 

[craner]

I notice that Foul Play are pulling ahead of the field. 4 Hero were catching them a couple of days ago. Is the Steve Gurley thing fair? Are people not also voting for his 2-step?

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I notice that Foul Play are pulling ahead of the field. 4 Hero were catching them a couple of days ago. Is the Steve Gurley thing fair? Are people not also voting for his 2-step?

it's true but 1) clearly he was the driving force behind Foul Play (their stuff w/out him is vastly underwhelming) & 2) he had a bunch of good solo stuff - well mainly just Rogue Unit I guess...actually I was mainly just thinking of his mindbending remix of "Say I'm Your Number One"...

tho also I might argue that Steve Gurley's 2-step is quite junglist in vibe if that makes sense...

on the other hand I'm quite glad that someone's finally voted for DJ SS & Formation...now we just need some Andy C fanatic to show up & put one in for RAM...perhaps also DJ Crystl can take a few minutes out of his busy celebrity trainer schedule to come & vote for himself...

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

and also, once & for all:

WHAT THE HELL IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JUMP-UP & HARDSTEP?

is there a difference? if so is it a sonic difference? or a vibe difference - playful vs. hard kind of thing?

 

[Ory]

or a vibe difference - playful vs. hard kind of thing?

yeah I'd say so. also jump-up has the wacky whirrrrwhhhooooom basslines which hardstep doesn't have (?)

 

[Tanadan]

What do people make of Digital (the producer)? He's been around for ages, he's always been making tunes, I've heard very few of them but a couple - Far Out and Special Mission, the first tunes on the Metalheadz Boxset, and Lower Depths/Sub Zero, engineered by Photek and I think the only tunes on Photek's label that weren't his own - are really nice, really nice vibes. Any more tune recommendations? I've listened to some of the later stuff on youtube (Natty Dread, Deadline, etc) and wasn't really interested. And what was his place in the scene?

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

yeah I'd say so. also jump-up has the wacky whirrrrwhhhooooom basslines which hardstep doesn't have (?)

right - but the thing is that a lot of "hardstep" (or at least what I hear referred to as hardstep) actually has those rubbery basslines - "Super Sharp Shooter" & so on...alright let's see if I can sort this out better...

on the one hand there is indisputable hardstep - "Guncheck", "Muthaf**ka", etc.

on the other hand there is indisputable jump-up - latter Aphrodite

I reckon perhaps there is a quite a fine line between the two - also that ppl use the terms somewhat interchangeabley & also amorphously in general...for example I've heard Formation described as both, Ganja Kru described as both, I've heard that jump-up means later Congo Natty, that it means Aphrodite, that it means any non-techstep late 90s 2-step D...

I guess it doesn't really matter...it's just people use "jump-up" in a pejorative sense a la Luka above ("corny jump-up stuff") & I'd like to know what they mean...if no one can provide an actual explantion that's fine as well...

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

What do people make of Digital (the producer)? He's been around for ages, he's always been making tunes, I've heard very few of them but a couple - Far Out and Special Mission, the first tunes on the Metalheadz Boxset, and Lower Depths/Sub Zero, engineered by Photek and I think the only tunes on Photek's label that weren't his own - are really nice, really nice vibes. Any more tune recommendations? I've listened to some of the later stuff on youtube (Natty Dread, Deadline, etc) and wasn't really interested. And what was his place in the scene?

I'm not going to pretend to have any idea what his place in the scene is/was, tho it seems like he's really developed his own sound...a lot of older jungle vibe in there, heavy dub influences, pretty good actually...as far as his actual releases what I've heard is quite hit or miss...some great stuff, some OK stuff, a lot of shite...admittedly I'm not even familiar with half of his discography which is massive, one of those guys who favors quantity over quality...

I have the Authorised Riddim 12" he did w/Danny C & it's pretty great, '94 ambient jungle business just on the right side of wishy-wishy fuzak nonsense. The early 12"s on Timeless & Metalheadz are really good too, as you might expect. As far as later stuff the Jah Sessions/Waterhouse Dub is good, "Ras 78" too...also the Dubzilla LP which is great, some of my favorite post-classic era jungle & also one of the few solid jungle/D artist LPs...basically I prefer Digitial at his most dubbed-out/junglistic, leave the creeping dread/neuro stuff to the Rushes & Opticals...

also thankfully a lot of his stuff can be gotten pretty cheap...

 

[DJ PIMP]

yeah I'd say so. also jump-up has the wacky whirrrrwhhhooooom basslines which hardstep doesn't have (?)

hardstep signifies the style of drums from the era where they started getting precise and developing sophisticated editing and technique... the sound became more spare and minimalist, punchy.

so kind of later period but pre-techstep jungle... 94-96.

i remember it as the name change from jungle, but prior to drum and bass winning out... which it had done by the end of that period.

 

[Ach!]

I first heard the term on Grooverider's KissFM show in 94, where he literally declared that...

"This is hardstep"​

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

hardstep signifies the style of drums from the era where they started getting precise and developing sophisticated editing and technique... the sound became more spare and minimalist, punchy.

so kind of later period but pre-techstep jungle... 94-96.

i remember it as the name change from jungle, but prior to drum and bass winning out... which it had done by the end of that period.

alright, that totally makes sense, the predecessor to techstep. so, less sloppy/ruff/rinseout, instead tighter, more precise etc. this exactly:

on the one hand there is indisputable hardstep -"Guncheck", "Muthaf**ka", etc.

what I was missing is that it has to do with how the drums sound as opposed to what samples are being used & the general vibe...

on the other hand I find this:

I first heard the term on Grooverider's KissFM show in 94, where he literally declared that...

"This is hardstep"​

to be rather amusing as that tune is pretty much the antithesis of "hardstep"...

 

[DJ PIMP]

to be rather amusing as that tune is pretty much the antithesis of "hardstep"...

but kind of not, in terms of the tuffness etc.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

but look man you just got done making the point that hardstep was to do with the production/engineering, how tunes & specifically the drums the sounded, not vibes...which makes a good deal more sense to me than some amorphous concept like "tuffness"...I mean what jungle isn't tuff...all the amen rinseout wizards like Remarc & Bizzy B are tuff as hell...

either way listening to 'Babylon" & specifically keying in on how it's produced/arranged I guess I can hear some of contemperanous Dillinja & Ed Rush, which I never noticed before...the drums are pretty clean & it's got that ambient jungle gone dark vibe a bit...so alright I take it back...but still...

 

[Tanadan]

This is a fascinating interview with Rob Playford: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun98/articles/goldie.html

And Goldie is doing an orchestral piece for the BBC Proms in August, which should be equally fascinating

 

[Ach!]

on the other hand I find this:



to be rather amusing as that tune is pretty much the antithesis of "hardstep"...

Well, I don't see how it can be the antithesis. Hardstep was Grooverider's thing, as he was "the hardstep provider, the great Grooverider". He presented the Jungle-Hardstep show. I didn't hear any of the other DJs of the time using that term. Whereas Hype's sets had a more bouncy, jump up feel, JJFrost on the jazzy but hard V-vibe, Kenny Ken pure jump up. Perhaps Randall came closest but he was more locked in with the early Ram sound. Grooverider's Hardstep had a dark, technical sound, certainly Amen-edits are included in that, but perhaps not as flamboyant as the more jump-up style (less up-and-down pitching of amens for example) - tuff, sombre and 'serious' is how I would describe it. I can see how you would find it problematic looking backwards at hardstep from the point of techstep - but hardstep was less of a tight genre specification, but pointed more toward the vibe and feel of the darker, more serious (as opposed to using the term technical, which would obviously apply to much jungle at the time) sounding jungle tracks.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

...I didn't hear any of the other DJs of the time using that term...I can see how you would find it problematic looking backwards at hardstep from the point of techstep - but hardstep was less of a tight genre specification, but pointed more toward the vibe and feel of the darker, more serious (as opposed to using the term technical, which would obviously apply to much jungle at the time) sounding jungle tracks.

yeah I think that's the problem - determining something retrospectively - not having been there going to clubs & listening to all the big DJs on the pirates at the time. actually I've always associated producers (& behind the scenes figures like Playford or Pete Parsons) with particular sounds much more than DJs. for example if you say RAM I think Andy C & Ant Miles, I'd never think of Randall. even with Grooverider I associate him far more with Prototype & his own productions than his sets. but dividing it up by which DJs were playing what makes quite a lot of sense.

as mentioned going back & listening to "Splash" closely I can hear how it would fit into "tuff, sombre & serious". I'd just always thought of it as a '95 ragga tune - you know, the Greensleeves remix comps, Jet Star, Kemet Crew kind of thing...

anyway I think I've pretty well sorted out what hardstep is & the difference between that & jump-up so thanks to you & to DJ Pimp for your insights.

 

[BareBones]

ok firstly i'm not a jungle expert by any stretch of the imagination... but i'm surprised dextrous hasn't really been mentioned... is he not really rated? maybe he's not really classed as an auteur. but i think some of his tunes are incredible... this is a real percy for me:

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(of course if he has been mentioned and i've just missed, ignore me)

 

[DJ PIMP]

dextrous is cool. i still like the stussy type on the subbase stuff. theres something whimsical about it now... miss that sense of fun in dnb.

 

[ToRMeNT]

this is kind of a nerdy jungle thread, but it IS dissensus.com. heh.


So....


Not even one mention of Jonny L.


Come on dissensus. You're letting me down. Tsk tsk.


Jonny L - The Anasphone (XL) circa'93. I've been a fan since. Dude has always turned shit out, and still does. Sooo much to say about the tunes he's put out, the albums. And yeah, one of the "originals" no doubt.

Jonny L.. come on people.


Dissensus, where's yer head at?

 

[Ory]

too right, he deserves a mention.



one of my fav tunes ever.