Funky/London/UK House

[Shonx]

The anti-presets thing - is this a consequence of presets sounding shit generally or a case of being original/having your own 'sound'? Was just kicking a wretched little theory around the moth-ball-belching corridors of my brain-block... the search for originality in music originally revolving around how sounds are used, before originality becomes about WHICH sounds are used... and then it short-circuited and I started wondering if farts dream.

I've hardly ever found any presets which don't suck totally, although there was one called pop square which I found on my emu x that sounded to my ears like that grime lead used on more or less everything a few years back (and maybe still now, not really urban/upper middle-class enough for this grime thing). In fact my grime knowledge is so shit that I can't even think of a tune that used it that I could name.

I was chatting about this a while back (and I think made a brief mention in the dogme dj's thread), that it would be interesting to see what people come up with given only very basic soundsets and limits on what fx could be used to see what producers could come up with. Should make people think more in terms of arrangement, harmony, melody and groove.

I always feel that the music that I always feel inspired by has more to do with certain familiar elements being used in new ways - taking something as simple as a sine wave, fender rhodes, kick and snare and hats and shakers and you should be able to make house, 2 step, funky, hip hop, whatever. It's interesting to place limitations on these things sometimes to limit the crippling effects of option anxiety on the tune writing process. I suppose a lot of this could be coming from a non-electronic background though, things have to be more distinctive musically when you have limited instrumentation.

 

[Blackdown]

given the words 'pre-sets' has been used i'd just like to totally refute the often quoted (by engineers/producers) correlation between non-presets and innovation, and conversely the assumption that using pre-sets is somehow wrong (see how Skream was harannged by some bell-end for using a pre-set in the (amazing) "2D").

Just because the process of making a sound was involved, doesn't intrinsically make it more valid than one that comes default in a synth, imo. only the end result matters, certainly to 99.9% of all the people who will ever hear or buy it.

People who boast about endless tech/process steps in their music (Sasha once explained to me with glee how sounds on his (shit) debut album involved 10 VSTs in a chain) usually have a severe case of wood-loss in the trees.

 

[Shonx]

Just because the process of making a sound was involved, doesn't intrinsically make it more valid than one that comes default in a synth, imo. only the end result matters, certainly to 99.9% of all the people who will ever hear or buy it.

This is so true. And the 0.01% that it does matter to you should generally ask quite why it does and why they haven't maybe sought therapy for it yet.

Just out of interest, is there much cross-pollination between this stuff and some of the b-more and baile stuff, quite enjoying this return to simple sounds put together in interesting new ways.

 

[stelfox]

given the words 'pre-sets' has been used i'd just like to totally refute the often quoted (by engineers/producers) correlation between non-presets and innovation, and conversely the assumption that using pre-sets is somehow wrong (see how Skream was harannged by some bell-end for using a pre-set in the (amazing) "2D").

Just because the process of making a sound was involved, doesn't intrinsically make it more valid than one that comes default in a synth, imo. only the end result matters, certainly to 99.9% of all the people who will ever hear or buy it.

People who boast about endless tech/process steps in their music (Sasha once explained to me with glee how sounds on his (shit) debut album involved 10 VSTs in a chain) usually have a severe case of wood-loss in the trees.

It's also worth remembering that very few people can do the whole avoiding presets thing well. Herbert is a prime example of someone who can, Matmos, Jamie Lidell etc. However, what they do is essentially pretty simple, just smartly approached. It's also boring to keep banging on about once people know. What I like about albums like Herbert's Bodily Functions is that it's so easy to forget that the source material is all organic and corporeal, and how easy it is to just take as lovely, warm, jazzy house music. I don't think anyone wants funky to go down a musique concrete route, however. So avoiding presets would lead us down the parlous path of "real instruments" becoming the hallmark of artistry. This is never, ever a good look. Personally I don't care if people making funky are using presets or not. What I'd like them do do is make the tracks good to listen to: clean, clear, loud, professionally mastered, either pressed on vinyl, or distributed (at least to DJs who will play it loud, in clubs!) as FLAC files, or at the bare minimum 320kbps MP3s. The best grime ever sounded was when plenty of vinyl was being released and while grime mixtapes could get away with sounding all kinds of fucked up, thanks to grit and roughness being part of its appeal, house music just can't get away with sounding clippy and underproduced. For a start it relies more on higher frequencies (vocals, melodies, instrumentation) much more than grime and, as Blackdown said, badly recorded high frequencies can virtually make your ears bleed. Also, it's supposed to be a classy alternative to that which has come before and the music should mirror that in its actual sound.

 

[STN]

If you play African Warrior on 33 it sounds like lachrymose, accusatory jazz-funk. I recommend it.

 

[gremino]

I was chatting about this a while back (and I think made a brief mention in the dogme dj's thread), that it would be interesting to see what people come up with given only very basic soundsets and limits on what fx could be used to see what producers could come up with. Should make people think more in terms of arrangement, harmony, melody and groove.

Maybe you could have a go in my no delay/reverb-challenge at dubstepforum? Anyone else?

I think it's a common thing to hide a loss of content with reverb/delay. Though this kind of "challenge" maybe hit me personally so much, because lately I'v been using so much reverb (I like big hall acoustics)

 

[fokse vektaire xeven]

^^^echoing () zhao's dogme for djs

a few of the funky whites i've got are cheaply pressed, wonky and distorted to fuck, the first few invasions kinda sound like shit...i dunno i spose i quite like it! but it's unintentional of course

 

[Shonx]

If you play African Warrior on 33 it sounds like lachrymose, accusatory jazz-funk. I recommend it.

Maybe you could have a go in my no delay/reverb-challenge at dubstepforum? Anyone else?

I think it's a common thing to hide a loss of content with reverb/delay. Though this kind of "challenge" maybe hit me personally so much, because lately I'v been using so much reverb (I like big hall acoustics)

a/ I don't do DSF
b/ I think reverb is the content

Good work for getting it moving though, nice to see people adding in new creative ideas

 

[STN]

What's DSF?

 

[sodiumnightlife]

dubstep forum.

 

[nomos]

hard house banton ep now in the ukfunky mp3 shop if you missed the vinyl

 

[hint]

Wow - looks like everything I ordered and paid for from Uptown 12 days ago is going to be made available as MP3s before I actually get my vinyl.

 

[nomos]

yeah i'm frankly glad i didn't shell out huge overseas $ to get on the waiting list for the gabryelle 12"

so roska 'tack tiles' - sino-funky?

 

[doom]

Out to Katie, I like the way you sing my name on this you know... sounds nice.

'Marcus A Big Softy Really'

doesn't really have the same ring to it tho does it

If you play African Warrior on 33 it sounds like lachrymose, accusatory jazz-funk. I recommend it.

& if you put it in a computer & speed it up about 12bpm it sounds like Grime! 3 for the price of 1!

house music just can't get away with sounding clippy and underproduced.

Dunno if Ron Hardy (RIP) would have agreed with that u kno... Marshell Jefferson only made one tune with an 808 bass, he hated the way 'Ive Lost Control' distorted the system in the Music Box but Ron loved it... or so the story goes.

Loads (& loads!) of modern house is clipped to fuck as well, albeit at the other end of the spectrum as the deep/soulfull vybe Funky is taking cues from. Over compression is a major thing across the board & is a form of both clipping & quik n nasty production.

The whole 'I don't use presets' thing is longer than the Equator... People that push that one are Class A, 100% fully paid up members of Geekazoid (thanks Corpsey) Inc.

Just out of interest, is there much cross-pollination between this stuff and some of the b-more and baile stuff, quite enjoying this return to simple sounds put together in interesting new ways.

Some of the more 'Quietstorm' Club stuff might work. All the OG guys are proper old school house heads, DJ Tamiel has started popping off 'Old School House' mixtapes as well, I just wish they'd let that influence come thru so things like 'Gabryelle' would happen more often! Seems certain guys are more interested in piggy backing on the success of 'Electro House' at the moment but :slanted: I would love to hear Blaqstarr crooning over some Bongos & Bass! Or some rap samples in Funky tunes!

 

[Shonx]

Some of the more 'Quietstorm' Club stuff might work. All the OG guys are proper old school house heads, DJ Tamiel has started popping off 'Old School House' mixtapes as well, I just wish they'd let that influence come thru so things like 'Gabryelle' would happen more often! Seems certain guys are more interested in piggy backing on the success of 'Electro House' at the moment but :slanted: I would love to hear Blaqstarr crooning over some Bongos & Bass! Or some rap samples in Funky tunes!

Picked up the DJ Tamiel 12 on Dress to Sweat yesterday, damn good label it seems.
Not quite connected to funky, but still house (of sorts) - http://www.juno.co.uk/ppps/products/290979-01.htm - last track has a sort of grubby 2 step intro too. I kind of like this cross between the club breaks sound with the fidget wonk, inventive, fun and headfucky at it's best (although at least borderline annoying to the more serious minded I'm sure)

 

[Blackdown]

a/ I don't do DSF

i thought i saw some stat that said you were the single highest poster there, of all time. or did i imagine that?

 

[Shonx]

i thought i saw some stat that said you were the single highest poster there, of all time. or did i imagine that?

Erm yeah. I do like to think it was mostly witty and well-thought out comments but then there's always a delusional stage in OCD recall. Think I'm going to get overtaken by the emoticon and heavytunebruv crew in no time. It's only really an acheivement in the sense that most of that was time I could have spent working, so I'm probably more of a drain on taxpayers money than most benefit cheats. Take that society!!!

I think maybe I've done DSF would be more accurate. In hindsight, it's odd that I spent so much time on one genre which clearly wasn't hitting the buttons for me. Still it's made me search out stuff that does interest me so all good - do think that sometimes negative views on a scene can be productive in moving things forward - nothing progresses through mindless backslapping and hype.

Been taking a break from production but just started again recently so I'll send them on when (if) I finish them. Going to be house tempo, heavyish broken beat I would have thought, don't know why people think there's more stuff to mix around 140, plenty more going on round 125-130.

 

[Ory]

heavytunebruv crew

lol

 

[viktorvaughn]

bar rhumba, 25 September, Geeneus, Supa D, Kode9 excloose funky set.

 

[elgato]

Dunno if Ron Hardy (RIP) would have agreed with that u kno...

!

and regardless of whether Ron Hardy would have agreed, imo whatever the precedent, a lot of what is exciting about funky is that an element within it have no deference to what people think house music should or shouldn't be or what 'house music can't get away with'!