Maybe we need to move to fucking essex then, bloody hell. My uncle's wife is from peckham but she speaks like she's from cheshire. It's honestly quite revolting. all that identikit middle class british accent has colonised everyone, it's that or you have a vague caribbean tinge to your accent. the turkish wannabe cockneys of my childhood are gone.
Multiculturalism’s gone too far
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- aloiso the don bermondsey black man barty british national barty coloureds coming out corpsey's law daily express jazz club damn ma is it that serious drill is a bit like kazakh folk music have u ever seen a street geek barbarian hi mum! i have friends who are black its not that deep i’m not racist but... mood sculptures nonsense theologies oh great another thread about goldsmiths sadam van buuren too dong lidn't read yet another fucking marxist thread ffs
Maybe we need to move to fucking essex then, bloody hell. My uncle's wife is from peckham but she speaks like she's from cheshire. It's honestly quite revolting. all that identikit middle class british accent has colonised everyone, it's that or you have a vague caribbean tinge to your accent. the turkish wannabe cockneys of my childhood are gone.
luka
Well-known member
Just tell us you can't stand the coloureds and it's time to take our country back
no, please don't get involved because whitehouse and william bennett was cool when we were 19 for a couple of months but it's really mundane and boring now.
go and cry with mr. tea. you are diametrically opposed to each other but have the same temperament. on the day of kiyyamah both of you will be clinging onto each other for dear life.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Luke’s questions:
Culture is a set of aesthetic sensibilities informed by some form or forms of demographic homogeneity; race, class, geography, temperament, etc.
I’m using the term multi-cultural to describe a number of different, interrelated things:
1) music produced by and for multiple demographics. Uk garage and drake are arguably the clearest examples of this; they genuinely have an audience comprised of people of varying ethnic and socio-economic backgrounds.
2) music fusing other forms of music from various backgrounds; on the corner, Timbaland, 2003 dancehall. Jungle is to my knowledge the subtlest, most inadvertent form of this.
3) a pan-global music with which it’s difficult to distinguish where it’s actually from. This would be afrobeats, post-2014 dancehall, afro-swing, tropical pop, the increasingly obligatory ‘afro’ track in well to do US rap all sounding the same.
Culture is a set of aesthetic sensibilities informed by some form or forms of demographic homogeneity; race, class, geography, temperament, etc.
I’m using the term multi-cultural to describe a number of different, interrelated things:
1) music produced by and for multiple demographics. Uk garage and drake are arguably the clearest examples of this; they genuinely have an audience comprised of people of varying ethnic and socio-economic backgrounds.
2) music fusing other forms of music from various backgrounds; on the corner, Timbaland, 2003 dancehall. Jungle is to my knowledge the subtlest, most inadvertent form of this.
3) a pan-global music with which it’s difficult to distinguish where it’s actually from. This would be afrobeats, post-2014 dancehall, afro-swing, tropical pop, the increasingly obligatory ‘afro’ track in well to do US rap all sounding the same.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Thirdform’s drill stuff:
1) as far as it having social resonance and familiarity (ie. grime as pub music) to me it’s astoundingly resonant; it’s very much speaking to and encapsulating lived social experience. Then again I live near where it’s all happening, as a reckless younger man I socialised with the kind of people who make drill, etc. You went to a white school and hang out with ash sarkar, so possibly you don’t have the same reference points.
2) drill rapping is very uk. It comes from a tradition that includes fast chat and the morse code style of so solid. There’s all sorts of intricate rhythmic ticks that make it English. The sense of humour’s incredibly English. The vocabulary. The lyrics read like those funny Jack the Ripper letters.
3) whether you like it or not as long as it’s unprecedented- there’s never been music like it before- then it is innovative. If you showed me a whole swathe of hessel audio tracks that pre-empt drill then I’d have to reconsider.
What this all really boils down to is that I said something rude about dubstep or squatter techno* at some point and accidentally offended you. Ever since then you’ve had a single-minded determination to caricature or delegitimise my aesthetic propensities. You’re in a constant search for a ‘gotcha’ moment that never materialises. There’ll come a time when you’ll see that the message I bring is as wholly true and faultless as that which the angel jibreal revealed unto Mohammad. Until then you’ll feel nothing but anguish and suffering. Relent. Let me embrace you in my south London tresillo bosom . I am father Stalin now. I am the glory of the motherland. Surrender to my relentless perfection.
* or more likely Luke’s said something like “Barty thinks tabla’s are for squares” and you’ve believed him.
1) as far as it having social resonance and familiarity (ie. grime as pub music) to me it’s astoundingly resonant; it’s very much speaking to and encapsulating lived social experience. Then again I live near where it’s all happening, as a reckless younger man I socialised with the kind of people who make drill, etc. You went to a white school and hang out with ash sarkar, so possibly you don’t have the same reference points.
2) drill rapping is very uk. It comes from a tradition that includes fast chat and the morse code style of so solid. There’s all sorts of intricate rhythmic ticks that make it English. The sense of humour’s incredibly English. The vocabulary. The lyrics read like those funny Jack the Ripper letters.
3) whether you like it or not as long as it’s unprecedented- there’s never been music like it before- then it is innovative. If you showed me a whole swathe of hessel audio tracks that pre-empt drill then I’d have to reconsider.
What this all really boils down to is that I said something rude about dubstep or squatter techno* at some point and accidentally offended you. Ever since then you’ve had a single-minded determination to caricature or delegitimise my aesthetic propensities. You’re in a constant search for a ‘gotcha’ moment that never materialises. There’ll come a time when you’ll see that the message I bring is as wholly true and faultless as that which the angel jibreal revealed unto Mohammad. Until then you’ll feel nothing but anguish and suffering. Relent. Let me embrace you in my south London tresillo bosom . I am father Stalin now. I am the glory of the motherland. Surrender to my relentless perfection.
* or more likely Luke’s said something like “Barty thinks tabla’s are for squares” and you’ve believed him.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
This whole thread is one giant @
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Seeing vim on the music threads is like seeing a yeti or the lock ness monster and then thirdform clattering some pans and telling it to shoe.
luka
Well-known member
Hate to be a stickler for detail being a broad brush man myself but can we really conflate these wildly different things? Drake is one bloke, who is (pushing it here) 'multicultural' in as much as his mum's Jewish and his dad's African American, and, if you like, in that his producer is white, but that's hardly comparable with UKG which was an entire scene in which audience, producers, MCs and DJs were representative of the genuinely multicultural city they emerged from. Ditto jungle. Why I asked what people considered truly multicultural music is that I think it's in fact very very rare. I think it was a peculiarity of 90s London. It endures in grime although by that point you've got Titch yelling 'Eminem' at Van Damage in the Younger Boys in the Hood/SLK clash, it's still there to a degree, as I said earlier, in road rap, but greatly diminished and so on.
This seems significant to me and I have previously on this very forum wondered about what the reasons might be. I've even wondered aloud whether London has become, in one sense, 'too multicultural' for a broad based coalition to hold. I think it's a very great shame.
2) again these are different things. Timbaland and 2003 dancehall just put some tablas or sitars or 'Indian flutes' on top of what they do anyway. It's not a conversation, it's not even on the level of, say, Don Cherry's engagement with musics outside the Jazz tradition.
3) is what Droid nailed at the start of the thread.
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sadmanbarty
Well-known member
I’m not conflating them.
I’m pointing to them as three phenomena which at this point in history are hinderemces rather than boons for good, innovative music.
I’m pointing to them as three phenomena which at this point in history are hinderemces rather than boons for good, innovative music.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Currently the best music is music which isn’t creating or produced by social coillisions.
The reason these coilitions were fruitful in the past is because every group was bringing their own thing to them.
My argument is that we no longer have our own things. We need to go and create our own things again if future cultural coalitions are going to be musically innovative.
The reason these coilitions were fruitful in the past is because every group was bringing their own thing to them.
My argument is that we no longer have our own things. We need to go and create our own things again if future cultural coalitions are going to be musically innovative.
luka
Well-known member
I've talked to you before, you suggested it, that multiculturalism as an ideal, something that people bought into, has peaked and I said the olympics was its last hurrah. That's obviously true. if you wanted to be mischievous, and I don't see why not, you could give bbc 1xtra as an example of this pulling apart, a symptom, like Brexit, or the hipster racism of Vice.
luka
Well-known member
I think drill, as I keep saying, very much is a social collision. I mean, it obviously is. It's just
The whites aren't involved.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
Obviously there’s the whole African vs Jamaican thing, but really all these guys live in the same three post codes, have similar economic backgrounds, all know each other. They’re far more mono cultural than lee Fagan and ckp.
As I said before, I’m talking relatively. There’s always multi culturalism, but in drill it’s far less stark than buun