padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I think of funk::spasm funk as the relation of this
to this
to this
Funk is Cancelled.
- Thread starter luka
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padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
more proto-spasm funk, highly relevant to postpunk
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
curious, might as well ask the expert while he's here
was that qualitatively different from post-punk musicians doing the same thing a few years later? if so, how?
bassbeyondreason
Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
Spasm in the polymorphous flailing sense, rather than the herky-jerky new wave sense.
A lot of the 70s African stuff does it well, e.g.:
Some US bits:
A lot of the 70s African stuff does it well, e.g.:
Some US bits:
bassbeyondreason
Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
Not to answer on blissblogger's behalf, but isn't this the "unbroken 70s art-rock continuum" or what-have-you from Rip it Up, with punk as the reactionary/purist aberration?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
ya 10-4 that
I don't think of avant-funk as necessarily herky-jerky but a lot of it is tbf, tho it's also often quite flailing
a lotta the African (vast generalizing here ofc) stuff is in general busier and more polyrhythmic than Black American and American-derived funk
does that contribute to spasm or sense spasm for you?
really trying to nail down this spasm-groove axis.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I never read Rip It Up, unfortunately
I wouldn't want to comment without having read it, but that's an interesting take
I wouldn't want to comment without having read it, but that's an interesting take
blissblogger
Well-known member
i think the main qualitative difference is simply that the post-punk musicians generally cannot play nearly as well as the first-half of the Seventies rockers (who'd been doing it for years, since the early sixties in some cases, built up a lot of chops, probably started out in small clubs actively trying to get people to dance, because that's what ALL rock was primarily designed for - this is pre-67).
Someone somewhere described the Stones as the great dance band of the British Sixties - when I read that, I was like "oh, of course they were". But that's what all groups were about then - until LSD kicks in. Rock albums have dance numbers and then the occasional ballad. It was all toe-tapping, move-your-feet music mostly with love-song lyrics - no higher purpose at that point).
So the Stones naturally later on are going to have a go at funk, at disco (and also reggae which they were really enamored as were a lot of pre-punk rockers - eric clapton 'i shot the sheriff"). They actually carried on doing that into the Eighties, with very modern R&B / Shannon type production on some of their singles. Same with Rod the Mod going disco "D'ya Think I'm Sexy" - no sell out, a perfectly logical evolution for your black music loving Brit.
But unlike the postpunks, the veteran rockers could do a pretty close facsimile of the Real Thing - it's the failure of the postpunks to completely pull it off that makes e.g. A Certain Ratio interesting (by the time they master the groove they sound like Level 42 - they gain what they were aiming for, lose what they had).
That shortfall of fluency and tightness created something new and fresh.
Or sometimes they'd be deliberately warping and estranging funk or other black musics it e.g. PiL "Death Disco" - both through sonic harshness and by bringing in an intensity of expression and dark content that disrupts the original music and takes it somewhere else.
Or they would tap into - and build from - the more extreme, voodoo-trance, frenzy aspects in funk, James Brown or Last Poets - that's what e.g. 23 Skidoo were about.
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bassbeyondreason
Chtonic Fatigue Syndrome
100% groove:
100% spasm:
Then it's a matter either of gradation or dialectical tension between the two.
mvuent
Void Dweller
I think it was pointed out in another thread that if you’re older or have heard a lot of music, it’s not like you’ve really “heard it all”--you just think you have. you can hear the past in what’s currently popular and say “oh that’s just recycling this other thing” but the kids tend to hear it differently and eventually a new lineage develops that wouldn’t have come from the first, on paper more original thing. maybe similar to how punk is discussed as 50s revival in retromania. like I can hear death grips or whatever and think, based on what I know about music history, it's nothing particularly new, but can see how someone who got into them through the ARGs on /mu/ could develop that influence into something that is.
also, along the lines of what padraig was saying earlier, once the signifiers / sonic components become fetishized it's all over. when producers start using hoover synths or sped up breaks it's because that's the best and quickest available way to achieve an effect. but then when they start talking about "proper amens" it gets boring. the specific tricks used to unlock aesthetic territory are mistaken for the territory itself.
been reading the jamiroqui thread in another tab as I read this and keep getting mixed up about which one I'm looking at
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padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
good answer, thanks
parts of it I knew/would've guessed but the concept of pre-psychedelic rock as primarily dance music is new to me, definitely something that makes sense as soon as someone else says it
it's very reminiscent of Lemmy's famous "when the punks learn to play their instruments, they will play metal" line which, apocryphal or not, was basically correct
it does bring up the question of accident vs intentionality. not that it can't be both.
forclosure
Well-known member
These are the kinda threads that pop up when im gone for a while rahted hole what happened here?
forclosure
Well-known member
Charles Hayward is a G man doesnt suck seeing This is not this heat this year was one of my highlights
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
right OK
I wouldn't characterize either of those as funk (the Bohannon is funk-adjacent, tho not nearly as funky as he usually is) but that's probably appropriate for axis endpoints
what's more of an issue is differing definitions of spasm and groove
spasm for me is physical-emotional - i.e. Cuchulainn's riastrad - whereas you seem to place more as this cacophonous, clattering kinda deal?
not that any one answer is wrong or right
I feel like going by your definition James Brown already resolves spasm-groove in a synthesis?
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I have more thoughts on this btw but I gotta do some work stuff, if I have time maybe tomorrow
droid
Well-known member
Never been a funk person, but have always admired the single minded concentration on the dancefloor, that shark like focus and sublime efficiency of the rhythm section, a phenomenon that gave rise to perhaps the greatest set of musical artifacts of the 20th century, unsurpassed in tone, sound and purpose - the breaks canon.
mathematical post-funk or meta-funk patty eat ur heart out. more mathematical than wolfgang. pure neuro maths!
anyway if you really wanted to have an anti-funk continuum you'd also have to cancel the voodoo/bewitched/enslaved to the logic of asexual sex that so much dance music from chicago jack onwards is indebted to. in which case you'd have to align with daytime bbc 6 music. not sure about you but I think that would really kill me.