catalog

Well-known member
personally speaking i didn't think it was shit, i just didn't want to read any more of it about halfway through. the most interesting part for me was for sure the internet-informed health obsession combined with the blind spot about microdosing, which i assumed was something he was using to make a deliberate point through the character, not something that he was doing himself in real life. that internet-health thing, the way a lot of people i know have very strong opinions on what to eat and what's healthy and unhealthy based on whatever they've read on the internet is something i bump into a lot in real life and it was good to see it on paper.
I'm sure I told this one on here before, but the best one of these for me was a few years ago when we'd been at a squat party in Uxbridge and finished up at a postman's pub in Central London then we were all making our way home and I said oh I'm just gonna pop in for some chicken nuggets to McDonald's and my friend was like "how can you put that in your body" when we've been hoovering ket up all night.

Im not so sure myself as to whether he was making this point about himself, but now you've said it, maybe he is/was, particularly as towards the end (dunno if you read that far) he does talk about laying off the lsd I think. I mean, clearly, that's what he needs to do.

In the podcast I listened to (going mental) he talks about his cancellation a little bit and I wondered if he might get into that, but maybe it's in the previous novel or something. I think I started that one and just wasn't in thd mood/found it too weird. But I ended up getting really into this one.
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
Im not so sure myself as to whether he was making this point about himself, but now you've said it, maybe he is/was, particularly as towards the end (dunno if you read that far) he does talk about laying off the lsd I think. I mean, clearly, that's what he needs to do.

i didn't get to that part i think, he was in Taiwan (i think it was Taiwan) with his mum and dad going through a load of medical scans when I put it down. i didn't get annoyed with it and stop, i just got a bit busy and when i had time to read again it just felt like a heavy and undesirable thing to pick up again.

i am quite into the general idea of people bothering to write about these experiences that they're having and i appreciate the de-glamourisation of it. it's a million times better that kerouac or whoever doing the self-mytholisation and glamorisation of whatever they're up to. i appreciate the sobriety and accuracy of it, and it obviously coheres with reading the internet, looking at instagram, all of that. it's almost a confessional thing, the way a lot of the autofiction guys seem quite resolute in their refusal to write about anything that feels dramatic and which doesn't paint themselves in a heroic light. i think its a mode that i hear more and more in very mainstream US pop music as well.
 

catalog

Well-known member
You could totally put this sort of book down and never think about it again, I was surprised at myself that I completed it. That's sort of what I meant by well structured. At the moment I wax gonna put it down cos it was getting very samey, something happened (cant remember what now).
 

you

Well-known member
personally speaking i didn't think it was shit, i just didn't want to read any more of it about halfway through. the most interesting part for me was for sure the internet-informed health obsession combined with the blind spot about microdosing, which i assumed was something he was using to make a deliberate point through the character, not something that he was doing himself in real life. that internet-health thing, the way a lot of people i know have very strong opinions on what to eat and what's healthy and unhealthy based on whatever they've read on the internet is something i bump into a lot in real life and it was good to see it on paper.

I was a massive Lin fan years ago. Certainly in the dizzyingly monotonous Cameron years. What I really liked about Taipei was the prose style. It served the premise. The endless caveats, pushing the object away— dissociating, discombobulating, anaesthetising— really brought one into that terminal-feeling existence. The use of simile was really powerful too, a memory like a folder saved within a folder, etc. I picked up all his previous novels and thought they were all excellent. But Taipei is best.

Lin shares some similarities with LaCava. Metropolitanism and its current day problematics of course, but also the auto-fiction edge. Lin is, ostensibly, like his protagonists by some degree across all his work. LaCava... it's not hard to see her as more than a model for her fiction. Drawing similarities between these two and their lives and their characters isn't the point. Both are media authors... Lin essentially harassed Gawker. He was a persistent self publicist. LaCava's online self plays very well into her latest novel. Emaciated, leggy, lipsticked... descriptions in I Feel my Pain match her notably well. I didn't think authors behaved like this. There is something very online, very American, about this. All for sale. I'm not entirely sure about it, some of the richest reading experiences I've had have been from authors whose fiction protagonists' lives vastly depart from their own. But, then, I feel Dickens' shadow...
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I'm sure I told this one on here before, but the best one of these for me was a few years ago when we'd been at a squat party in Uxbridge and finished up at a postman's pub in Central London then we were all making our way home and I said oh I'm just gonna pop in for some chicken nuggets to McDonald's and my friend was like "how can you put that in your body" when we've been hoovering ket up all night.
The ultimate version of this is when you get a tedious establishment rock'n'roll bellend like Eric Clapton, who spent the 70s and 80s doing literally millions of dollars worth of coke and smack, getting all anti-vaxx on the grounds that he doesn't want to put something in his body when he doesn't know exactly what's in it, and when it's been made by ethically dubious people who only care about money.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I might read Taipei at some point. I did have a go with the one where he calls himself haley Joel osmont but thought it was rubbish, too over the top.

But I liked leave society and I liked trip too, particularly the last bit with Kathleen Harrison. It feels like he's more congruent between his actual self and written self.

But then as I said, you hear his voice and think fucking hell.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I've picked up Cities of the Red Night again, and am reading it somewhat self-consciously in a soft play centre.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I'm staying at my parents' and I found a book of Steven King short stories, no-one would admit to owning it until eventually my brother said he'd borrowed if off a friend twenty years ago and thought he'd given it back to him. Anyway I started reading it and... I wish it was better than it was, I like the idea of Steven King, I like him on twitter, I (quite) like the films based on his books. I guess he's a victim of his own success in that he pretty much defined what horror was or became for the last thirty years, but the result of that is that the stories all seem so tired and predictable. The first one in the book is The Mist and it stretches the definition of a short story to the limit, it's really loooong and really boring despite a really good start - the bit before the "horror". I've seen, I think, two films based on that short story and to my surprise the more recent one was very very faithful to the book, the reason the film was rubbish was simply cos it was based on something rubbish.

The other day we saw the second part of It - the re-make I'm talking about - and to me there is something so frustrating about the way those films waste such a good idea. There's a killer clown that lives in the drain and the first time you see him it bites off Georgie's arm and it's brilliant and terrifying and ace all at once... and then by the end the last fucking hour is them battling with the spider thing and it goes on and on and on it's so fucking boring, and I thought that was a problem in the film but maybe it's also in the book.

And another thing... It is horrible in the bits when they're not fighting Pennywise the Dancing Clown; the girl getting fucked by her dad, the kid with the evil mum destroying his confidence, the whole thing with the bully Bowers who is carving his name in their flesh and stuff... what's he getting at? Life is horrible but you can get a bit of light relief by defeating an eternal child-eating entity that tends to manifest as a clown? I don't think so cos it's obvious that in his mind Pennywise is the ultimate evil and supposed to be worse than (ok and I guess perhaps the ultimate cause of) the everyday horrors but it fails in that way and the film ends up being somewhere between two stools. But it's so frustrating the tantalising bits when it's good... despite being - on the whole - terrible, Pennywise is still one of the most famous figures in horror. Imagine if the rest of it was good is what I'm saying?

Has anyone read King properly? His whole mythology about the dead lights and floating and shit? Is it good, is he good, does he ever deliver on the promise that's there?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I suppose what I'm getting at is that It seems unsure whether it's about a nightmarish reality or nightmarish magic monster and so it covers both to (I think) their overall detriment.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Can't vouch for King cos I've not read since I was a young man, but my memory of his writing is that it's superior trash.

Some of his books (The Shining/It/Pet Semetary) really scared the shit out of me.

He wrote a lot of his most popular books in the 80s as an alcoholic cokehead, I believe, which might explain how batshit crazy and cringey they get.

I think the "point" of 'It', if there was one, is that there's a sort of evil inherent to American culture which Penny-wise the Cthuluesque alien feeds on throughout the centuries. I dimly recall Pennywise showing up in old black and white photos, of playing a role in lynchings and race riots etc. In a sense he's a like the Judge from Blood Meridian. The kids (again my dim memory) are all outsiders and savagely bullied by their schoolmates. So it's not that "It" is the sole cause of evil, he's more of a parasite feeding on how horrible some humans are.

I agree that the ending is awful, and that the opening scene with the clown in the storm drain is the best bit in it. (Maybe he thought of this scene and then extrapolated from it?) But I do like the concept of Pennywise appearing in the form of their childhood fears -- there was a scene that chilled me to the bone as an 11 year old when one of the kids sees the Mummy standing on a frozen lake with a balloon that isn't blowing in the wind?

The other thing I usually recommend is King's book about the horror genre, in literature and film, "Danse Macabre".
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Although I read some stuff about It after watching it and got into reading about his whole mythos and it turns out that the overarching evil force is the prog band King Crimson.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I suppose what I'm getting at is that It seems unsure whether it's about a nightmarish reality or nightmarish magic monster and so it covers both to (I think) their overall detriment.
I felt sort of the opposite of this after reading 'The Turn of the Screw', in that it gets hyped as this great example of narrative ambiguity and the unreliable narrator, in which it's left up to the reader's interpretation whether the ghosts are real or a product of the narrator's mental illness - but actually, it's completely unambiguous that the ghosts objectively exist. (Or at least, the only way they can not exist is for the narrator to have invented every aspect of the whole story.) A similar thing happens in the second season of Twin Peaks, when Lynch was forced by the studio to reveal Laura Palmer's killer, and Coop and the other characters discuss whether 'Bob' ever had an objective existence or was just an aspect of Leland Palmer's personality, while the audience knows he objectively exists.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
We went into Wantage and from a charity shop I bought a copy of The Lady in the Lake by Chandler, perhaps @DLaurent can confirm but I believe that the adaptation of that was the first ever (or maybe just an early example of a) film shot from the perspective of the protagonist.

Speaking of Wantage, I was pleased to see some things never ever change

321958582_1995488993989575_6753530803107602503_n.jpg


Oh England...
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
We went into Wantage and from a charity shop I bought a copy of The Lady in the Lake by Chandler, perhaps @DLaurent can confirm but I believe that the adaptation of that was the first ever (or maybe just an early example of a) film shot from the perspective of the protagonist.

Here we go

 

DLaurent

Well-known member
I have the book (only part read) but never seen the film! Sounds worth a watch though. I should do for completist reasons as seen most other Chandler based films.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
We went into Wantage and from a charity shop I bought a copy of The Lady in the Lake by Chandler, perhaps @DLaurent can confirm but I believe that the adaptation of that was the first ever (or maybe just an early example of a) film shot from the perspective of the protagonist.

Speaking of Wantage, I was pleased to see some things never ever change

View attachment 13842


Oh England...
Here in Exeter there's an equestrian statue of some Victorian hero of imperialism, who is bound by decree to wear a traffic cone at all times. He's still wearing one these days despite the death of a student in the process of re-hatting
him a few years ago.

 
Top