thirdform

pass the sick bucket
The line about Phonk being ignored because the producers are all faceless digital entities going viral via TikTok sounded much more futuristic to me than getting them on the festival circuit. If anything, that could be dragging them back into the past.

yes, albeit phonk just sounds like bitcrushed 00s gabber to me (we used to call it nustyle) to diss it's streamlined spooky hard trance aesthetics. There are a select few ones from nu style i can enjoy as a vampire porn horror movie vicarious thrill.




this is so stupid, but that's its charm.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
this is the thread where third finally gave sadmanbarty a nervous breakdown that sadly he has never recovered from

tbf the funniest bit of barty was him taking phuture acid trax as the definitive acid house record from that era for innovation when it's either dj pierre box energy or lorent x - machines.

This is why unlike @blissblogger - I consider the cannon to be ultra cultural imperialism, especially when its an ethnicised/postcolonial cannon. no cannons, do the hard work!
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
He's been mentioned on here multiple times before, including by Simon. That's how I knew in the first place. Gus even made a thread demanding he join the forum.

oh right. I knew from the dedication in energy flash when i read it in 2009 or whenever.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
. These scenes get picked up like someone working their way through a wine tasting.

Forgive me for writing a post I've already written on here a million times but

To me this is all bound up with the internet, the pace of culture, the surplus of stimulation. Perhaps it's bound up with me being 39 too but I do think it's harder to be excited about anything when it's being shoved down your ear and eyeholes from morning to night. (I think as you get older this becomes more true because you've already experienced so much stuff, and you were younger, and in my case the internet wasn't the same thing at all.)

Constantly hunting for dopamine means listening to dozens of pieces of music (for 30 seconds) a day, scouring playlists, having these micro-crazes for certain forms of music etc.

I've not read the article really, but I think there is (as always, and perhaps even heightened by all this stimulation) thirst for excitement, esp. among young ppl, esp. among young ppl who've read the stories about jungle and hardcore and garage etc. but the speed at which new things appear means any excitement there is is almost instantly neutered.

Perhaps in part because the sort of excitement we seek is an audio shock, a 'futuristic' sound that we couldn't imagine before. I'm thinking of CGI now, how it was shocking at first and thrilling but now is just humdrum -- and to use a more recent example, AI art. Music still does throw up these instances of I've never heard this before (ideally, for me, balanced with this is enjoyable too I could dance to this) but now everything is possible...

Oh jesus I bored myself as I was writing. I'll stop now and post this because otherwise I just wasted ten minutes. 🥲
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Should also say that on a personal note, hearing certain sounds in a club has opened me up to the thrills they can stimulate

When the music is very loud and the room is quite dark and you've drunk a lot of booze and done other substances you are of course off your head but you're also torn temporarily out of the internet mindset...
 

version

Well-known member
Industry conservatism isn't anything new, but I am curious how much of an effect it's having on this latest wave of producers and promoters. The local and online scenes covered in the piece seem to be thriving creatively in their own environments, although perhaps not financially when it comes to the online ones.

We've probably covered it before, but the stranglehold's shifted with the move to digital. Anyone can get their tunes online in a way they couldn't when it was all TV and radio, but the platforms barely pay out and are still owned by people at the top and the festivals are also owned by those people and there are only so many bookings to go around, plus there's all the politicking and whatnot that goes into organising these things.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Dragging a hobbyhorse in here really cos lately I've become very aware of how addicted and enslaved I am to getting dopamine hits-- be that from Instagram or vaping or wanking or
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
or maybe dance music as mass culture is just boring in the sense that rock is boring. it's said nearly everything it can in this form.

both dance and rock music will still have interesting subcultural niches, but they will be calibrated to individual tastes. For instance, chilly detroit-styled electro still apeals to me, but I couldn't make a case for it being a vanguard because I'm consuming it as an intensification of certain angular aspects I like.
 

version

Well-known member
I find the things which currently feel most futuristic to me tend to be multimedia. The crossover of digital art, the internet, modern music production techniques, viral distribution.

That, and the negative effects Corpsey's describing. Oversaturation, fatigue. These are themselves futuristic. This situation wasn't possible before.

Anyway, the reason I posted the article wasn't so we can rehash the "Boohoo, I don't enjoy music the same way anymore... " routine. It was because I found the industry vs. the future framing interesting, the idea the future's being held back or consciously ignored to maintain the old structures.

Of course, you can't hold it back. It will break through and the old structures will fall, but the article suggests there's some sort of bubble where the ghosts of the 2010s are currently propping up the festivals whilst the 2020s are rushing through the internet.
 

version

Well-known member
cba paying $20 p/m for gpt 4, otherwise i would.

Seems like a decent example of an industry holding things back, tbh. The fee will be going to their own development, but if the thing were just loose in the wild then we'd probably be seeing a lot more being done with it and who knows what being discovered.

Maybe we'll get an open source equivalent at some point and things will really explode.
 

version

Well-known member
Dragging a hobbyhorse in here really cos lately I've become very aware of how addicted and enslaved I am to getting dopamine hits-- be that from Instagram or vaping or wanking or

Is the dopamine thing definitely real? I remember Gus railing against this a while back. It's become an accepted and popular talking point, but what does it actually feel like? Is it just getting a buzz from positive engagement and interactions?
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I think 'dopamine' is pop-science shorthand for a specific mechanism in the brain...

"Neurotransmitters are synthesized in specific regions of the brain, but affect many regions systemically. The brain includes several distinct dopamine pathways, one of which plays a major role in the motivational component of reward-motivated behavior. The anticipation of most types of rewards increases the level of dopamine in the brain,[4] and many addictive drugs increase dopamine release or block its reuptake into neurons following release.[5"

"In popular culture and media, dopamine is often portrayed as the main chemical of pleasure, but the current opinion in pharmacology is that dopamine instead confers motivational salience;[6][7][8] in other words, dopamine signals the perceived motivational prominence (i.e., the desirability or aversiveness) of an outcome, which in turn propels the organism's behavior toward or away from achieving that outcome.[8][9"

"While dopamine has a central role in causing "wanting," associated with the appetitive or approach behavioral responses to rewarding stimuli, detailed studies have shown that dopamine cannot simply be equated with hedonic "liking" or pleasure, as reflected in the consummatory behavioral response."

"direct electrical stimulation of dopamine pathways, using electrodes implanted in the brain, is experienced as pleasurable, and many types of animals are willing to work to obtain it.[66] Antipsychotic drugs reduce dopamine levels and tend to cause anhedonia, a diminished ability to experience pleasure.[67] Many types of pleasurable experiences—such as sexual intercourse, eating, and playing video games—increase dopamine release"

"Cocaine, substituted amphetamines (including methamphetamine), Adderall, methylphenidate (marketed as Ritalin or Concerta), and other psychostimulants exert their effects primarily or partly by increasing dopamine levels in the brain by a variety of mechanisms.[103] "

etc etc
 

version

Well-known member
To me this is all bound up with the internet, the pace of culture, the surplus of stimulation.

This is key, but also reveals itself as illusion if you can step aside and weave threads together like @mvuent was doing the other week - "... watching a commercial break aired in 1969, listening to a jungle track that could’ve come out in 1995, committing a train robbery in a virtual wild west, making deepfake presidents rap nwa lyrics... ."

It's possible to step out of the line of fire somewhat and watch the stuff come spitting out of the cultural Gatling gun rather than standing in front of it and being peppered. And when you do, you suddenly realise how mad and futuristic a lot of the stuff going on really is.
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
yes i suppose that returns us to thirdform's point about not being able to imagine the future

because the future doesn't feel like the future (or at least not for long) when you're experiencing it

to state the obvious, if we'd been living in bladerunner world when bladerunner jungle was around bladerunner jungle might have sounded much more quotidian

it is possible to step out of the line of fire maybe, but i think most of us who use social media, have smartphones etc are addicts really
 
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