version

Well-known member
I was just out with the dog and I had a stoned thought about this thread.

Why is the "perfect" alien imagined as hostile? Why can it not be benevolent?

I've never been able to tell whether Ash calls it 'the' perfect organism, 'a' perfect organism or simply 'perfect organism', so it doesn't necessarily have to be hostile. It's just perfected in terms of a hostile organism. Also, Ash is an android with a particular view of perfection which isn't necessarily universal. He talks about simplicity and being unclouded by judgement and morality.
 

version

Well-known member
I suppose if you were to consider a perfect benevolent organism in terms of movie aliens, perhaps the best example would be E.T.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I've never been able to tell whether Ash calls it 'the' perfect organism, 'a' perfect organism or simply 'perfect organism', so it doesn't necessarily have to be hostile. It's just perfected in terms of a hostile organism. Also, Ash is an android with a particular view of perfection which isn't necessarily universal. He talks about simplicity and being unclouded by judgement and morality.

Yeah totally, just odd that it goes for evil in its simple perfection, over anything else.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I couldn't bear to watch it either tbh.

But in all seriousness, it's back to 2001 a space odyssey I think.

Cos the alien is certainly not benevolent, but certainly is more ambiguous. It's really a tarkovsky trajectory of alien in 2001.

And it's a more intriguing proposition than the alien in alien I think, where it's more of a mind/imagination thing and really quite difficult to describe in words.
 

version

Well-known member
That's what's intriguing about the alien in Annihilation too. It's impossible to work out what it's doing, why it's doing it, whether it's doing it out of malice, indifference or something else, or whether motives and emotions like that even come into it.
 

sus

Moderator
From "The Way of Water" @catalog
And part of the perfect organism? Is the capacity to work together. Just look at the Marines. Conflict and cooperation are not antagonistic concepts; they are inextricable, one in the service of the other. What brings warring families together is a new shared threat, a new enemy, a new Other. And the disappearance of this Other may—and often does, inevitable—bring with it new in-fighting, and intra-othering, another splitting of unity. Competition begets coordination. Violence begets peace. A packs of chimps assemble, drumming on treetrunks, signaling to males near that a hunt's begun. On all fours, walking through the underbrush, they spot red colobus monkeys in the treetops above. A few form a perimeter, the rest flush up, up. Scaling the walls, the towers, as if up ropes and ladders—up into the trees they climb, spotting their ideal victim, the infants they will try to separate from mothers, devour limb by limb. The attackers are spotted. The ambush begins; pandemonium breaks out. In the aftermath, the tender flesh of lamb and veal enjoyed with leafy greens, the chimps will share their meat among allies and mates, exemplars of generosity and kindness. This is the logic of power, and of connection. War, as Robert Wright’s Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny incessantly argues, is one of the great forces of cooperation. On Twitter, the libs are ooh’ing and ah’ing over nature’s mutualism, deriving hope from inter-species symbiosis. But every example? Is born of conflict. Badger and coyote, hunting together: one runs the prey into its burrow; the other, digging, flushes it out. Shrimp clean parasites from the moray’s mouth, as oxpecker’s clean buffalo teeth, and Egyptian plovers the incisors of crocodiles. Boxer crabs wield anemones like weapons. Ants tend to their host acacias, attacking any herbivores which threatens it. Ravens lead wolves to their prey; the wolves, destructuring tough hide, expose the entrails, left-overs for the birds.
 

sus

Moderator
Like I mentioned upthread, I think it's important (and unfortunate) that all the Alien films are about first encounters. Small groups of people who have no idea what they're seeing, what they're getting into. Because realistically, in the long run, I think human's extremely sophisticated improvisatorial coordination capacities would defeat the xenomorph. Over the long-term, our ability to build sophisticated environments, to practice science, and to coordinate billions of organisms is unbelievably powerful, more powerful even than these law-of-physics-defying impossible nightmarecreatures who can grow from 3 pounds to 300 in an hour, and survive in the vacuum of space for decades, and radically alter their genome in a single generation.

With a little bit of time I think you can imagine human societies, even human societies with present-day technological conditions, setting up extremely tight quarantine protocols, with advanced airtight fortifications and detection systems, and using aircraft & drone to detect and decimate the xenomorphs. Yes it would be incredibly bloody costly messy business as we learned and adapted.

Not saying this to do the whole YouTube vid genre of "which fantasy monster would win." More just to say that you're right, our abilities to niche-construct and cooperate are obscenely powerful and there's (what Lynn Margulis would call) a neo-Darwinist conflict orientation in these films that reflects now-outdated evolutionary paradigms
 

sus

Moderator
@vershy versh V man, I watched Alien Covenant on your rec, we've all been following your incredible contributions closely, Murphy's sneaking it on the office telly, but it's time for you to watch the real Solaris
 

version

Well-known member
I was just thinking about the egg-facehugger-xenomorph cycle earlier and noticed the egg looks like stone, the facehugger like flesh and bone and the xenomorph like machinery. I don't know whether it's deliberate, but there's an arc of development there beyond the life cycle of the alien. I thought of Prynne's Note on Metal.
 
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version

Well-known member
It's striking just how much machine's in the original design, also that the head's translucent if you get it in decent light and there's a humanoid skull at the front. There's one on display in which the materials have started to break down, so you can see through it a little better.

e3b49733787a8906e0c4239191e52c3c--cgi-xenomorph.jpg


Here's a look at one in its pomp.

Screenshot 2025-02-20 at 23-26-51 alhead.jpg (JPEG Image 1041 × 936 pixels) – Scaled (95_).png
 

version

Well-known member
Another thing which occurred to me was for all the talk of how alien the creature is, it's its humanoid qualities which partly contribute to the horror, particularly those to do with gender and sexuality. The more frantic and bug-like they become, the less horrifying. There just isn't the time for the strange, seductive kind of encounter you see in the first film when there's tons of them popping out of the walls and people running around with guns.

The one in the first film and the ones in Giger's paintings have this quality of being both sleek, seductive, feminine, and brutally phallic.

6589b4005d6ba5fd99af5afd89d10276.gif
 

sus

Moderator
Another thing which occurred to me was for all the talk of how alien the creature is, it's its humanoid qualities which partly contribute to the horror, particularly those to do with gender and sexuality. The more frantic and bug-like they become, the less horrifying. There just isn't the time for the strange, seductive kind of encounter you see in the first film when there's tons of them popping out of the walls and people running around with guns.

The one in the first film and the ones in Giger's paintings have this strange quality of being both sleek, seductive, feminine, and brutally penetrative and masculine.

To me the most horrifying scenes are of the lips peeling back, the alien breathing on you, patient still so close and then wham.

And they have both an female and a male part, in some sense: they are like flowers, hermaphrodites, with both phallus and yoni.

il_fullxfull.3074130189_hh9m.jpg


A phallic extrusion, from the dentata, which itself has another dentata.

alienromulus12.jpg
 

luka

Well-known member
never seen it but it is funny that lynch and cronenberg are jealous of ridley scott when they never made a film half as good as gladiator. maybe being and advertisment man with no vision is a good thing?
 
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