brand vs paxman

craner

craner

Beast of Burden
K-punk recently announced on his Facebook page that he was going to start de-friending "friends" who didn't agree with him because he wanted to make his page a space for like-minded comrades committed to raising class consciousness. So far I have not been culled, but it can only be a matter of time.
 
craner

craner

Beast of Burden
Anybody who has been privately educated, in K-punk's class war world, is objectively, ideologically suspect, no matter what the circumstances (Assisted Place, Scholarship, financial sacrifice on family's part, or if they escaped as soon as they could) and no matter what they have done since. This would include, as far as I know, me, Luke, Matt Ingram and Sufi.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
craner said:
I don't believe that Brand really wants to be challenged seriously on his points, or if he's as smart as he thinks he is he shouldn't want to. He could be demolished quite quickly. Paxman is easy pickings these days -- he is lazy, complacent, visibly bored by his standing, and not intellectually agile or committed enough to interview properly. Most savvy and articulate politicians can confound or run around his bluff techniques by now as they are too common and not nearly acute enough. Even Bozza LOL LEGEND Johnson can rung rings around his carcass.
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Sing it, brother.

Wasn't he also recently quizzed on WWI – a subject on which he's just written a book/made a TV series, yet apparently knows fuck all.

There was a point to Paxman once. Now he's as much a product of celebrity culture as Robbie Savage, TV pundit.
 
craner

craner

Beast of Burden
Naturally, the Prime Minister would no longer be a jobbing, spectacularly compromised Fauntleroy like David Cameron but someone able to command the confidence of everyone.
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Like who? Harold Wilson? Barbara Castle? Ken Clarke? Tony Blair? Lionel Blair? Darcey Bussell?
 
HMGovt’s Glorious Return!

HMGovt’s Glorious Return!

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craner said:
Like who? Harold Wilson? Barbara Castle? Ken Clarke? Tony Blair? Lionel Blair? Darcey Bussell?
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Made your nipples hard, typing that, didn't it?

You missed out David Attenborough, Brian Cox and Brian Cox.

Anyway, what about abolishing the House of Lords and replacing it with something like this?
 
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craner

craner

Beast of Burden
although I don't know if anyone who wants in is willing to do it.
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Check out the Labour backbenches, or local councils, or other democratic organisations who day in day out work to change things. Like, for example, the Citizens Advice Bureau, who have just made a massive change to discourse and practice around Payday loaners and Zero Hour Contracters. Or the trade unions who day in day out fight Coalition cuts and employer malpractice. And whose equivalents barely survive or exist indepenenlty in non-democratic states such as (just some examples close to my heart) Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Iran, Uzbekistan, Russia, Ukraine.

Brand's argument is arid because it is ignorant, not because he is working class.
 
HMGovt’s Glorious Return!

HMGovt’s Glorious Return!

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You don't get it at all, do you? What do you have vested in the current system that you're so certain it cannot be substantively changed?

We're an advanced society lumbered with an ancient political system that is hopeless at anything other than perpetuating inequality and bolstering the position of the rich. Is it beyond us to build something better and futureproof?

I've ordered a copy of this by a right Tory, but at least he's daring to think a bit
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
bandshell said:
I already have. You're one of the few people I've seen actually challenging his points rather than his character.
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Then you can't have been looking very far. Tom Chivers and the Robert Webb (posted upthread) should do for starters, but there's plenty more.
 
craner

craner

Beast of Burden
Castle is a great example. All her battles were "boring" and "democratic": seat belts, breathalisers, union reform, pay beds in hospitals. All important, in their way. She was a warrior socialist, but crucially a democratic socialist. Did what she could within the desirable limits. The history of Labour in this time and before (Bevan, Cripps, Dalton, Morrison, etc) is all about the limits of socialism in a democracy. What you can do before you cross a line into non-democratic politics. It would be worth studying, for you lot, although you may find it a little dull.

I think I get it, though.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
seatbelts, nothing wrong with seatbelts but that's not much of a battlecry craner.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
there needs to be a way to take on and defeat powerful vested interests and voting labour is not it.
 
HMGovt’s Glorious Return!

HMGovt’s Glorious Return!

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luka said:
seatbelts, nothing wrong with seatbelts but that's not much of a battlecry craner.
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It was Ralph Nader's idea anyway.

From wikipedia "she attracted controversy when she told local government leaders to give added emphasis to motor vehicle access in urban areas, as "most pedestrians are walking to or from their cars.""

Cheers for that, Babs.
 
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