vimothy and the alt right

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Is 'cultural Marxism' a real thing? Does anyone described themselves as a cultural Marxist?

What I mean is: is there a real idea - perhaps an obscure concept of interest to a few left-wing philosophy professors - which the alt-right has blown up into this great existential threat to Western civilization, or have they conjured a bogeyman completely out of thin air?
 
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firefinga

Well-known member
Is 'cultural Marxism' a real thing? Does anyone described themselves as a cultural Marxist?

What I mean is: is there a real idea - perhaps an obscure concept of interest to a few left-wing philosophy professors - which the alt-right has blown up into this great existential threat to Western civilization, or have they conjured a bogeyman completely out of thin air?
Of course it's a "real thing" just as much as the "Alt-right" is a real thing, meaning those "concepts" are floating around and resonate within certain groups - and sometimes break into the mainstream/mass consciousness.

"Cultural Marxism" is actually quite an old concept dating back (at least in the German speaking world where I have some knowledge) to the aftermaths of WW1 (possibly even the second half of the 19th century) used by right wingers of different kinds to describe an assault on traditional values connected to ideas like Nation (race) and a connected culture (and religion), the arts etc. Things like modern art, atheism, the rejection of traditional marriage/sex-life, Jazz were seen as the "cultural" expression/branch of the communist assault on "the old world" basically.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Yeah yeah yeah I get that, but I'm interested in whether anyone calls themselves a cultural Marxist, or says "I am involved in cultural Marxism and it is a good thing" (in the same way people identify as being part of the alt-right, for example). I'm well aware it's a term of abuse among the right.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
No-one says "I am an Islamofascist", but it's a derogatory term for militant Salafism/Wahhabism, and people (whole states, even) do identify as Salafist.
 

firefinga

Well-known member
Yeah yeah yeah I get that, but I'm interested in whether anyone calls themselves a cultural Marxist, or says "I am involved in cultural Marxism and it is a good thing" (in the same way people identify as being part of the alt-right, for example). I'm well aware it's a term of abuse among the right.
No of course not. Except for a few odd (or not so odd) individuals nobody calls themselves Marxist today either.

But then, what is being ment by "Cultural Marxism" today to begin with? Who is being assaulted by being called that way?

Usually it's being political activists/artists/leftist college professors being called "Cultural Marxists". "Cultural Marxism" is being understood by the right-wingers as a basic rejection of "Western" ideas (usually not defined properly/in a sloppy way).

There are people born/raised/educated in the West rejecting those vague values. They are the right wingers targets in that regard, and usually call themselves "progressives", but not "Cultural Marxists". So, a self-designation as "Cultural Marxists" doesn't exist, at least not to my knowledge.
 
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Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
There are people born/raised/educated in the West rejecting those vague values. They are the right wingers targets in that regard, and usually call themselves "progressives", but not "Cultural Marxists". So, a self-designation as "Cultural Marxists" doesn't exist, at least not to my knowledge.
OK, that's more or less what I thought.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Thing is, some of the stuff that these right wing conspiracists are on about is real.

There was a "long march through the institutions" which aimed at a left wing cultural hegemony. If you pick a university lecturer at random they are quite likely to be left wing or liberal.

LGBT+ people have engaged in campaigning around normalising homosexuality etc.

And to some extent these have been victories. (In other areas less so - why was higher education such fertile ground for this stuff in a way that factories, warehouses and call centres don't seem to have been?)

But obviously conspiracy theory is the wrong way to look at this (perhaps with the exception of things like the Living Marxism/Spiked cult: http://www.lobbywatch.org/profile1.asp?PrId=78 )

What these things are, are social movements. In the same way that the alt-right is a social movement which is trying to establish its own cultural hegemony.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Ha, Spiked! If ever there was a case to be made for the horseshoe theory...
Well there is a more marxist explanation, which is that the RCP was always prone to contrarianism (headlines like "World War Two - who won?"), was always elitist and based in universities (you had to pass an exam to join) etc. And class will out.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Well there is a more marxist explanation, which is that the RCP was always prone to contrarianism (headlines like "World War Two - who won?"), was always elitist and based in universities (you had to pass an exam to join) etc. And class will out.
They're kind of an irrelevant group, though - I mean, everything they've done since Blood Sugar Sex Magic has been shite, let's face it.
 
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Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Not 'alt right' exactly - although I appreciate the irony that 'alt' is German for 'old' - but AfD got 13% over the weekend.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/n...2017-latest-results-live-merkel-bundestag-afd

Doesn't sound like a huge percentage, but it makes them the third-biggest party. Notable that their core vote is in the old DDR, although I dunno whether that has more to do with the partition of the country or simply because that's where most immigrants are entering.
 
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