luka

Well-known member
Staff member
I still think of Pattycakes invocation of 'soul' as the ultimate determination of value in music. A lot of us (eg Bartys pop music, thirds anti humanism) would disagree strongly. What is soul. When did we lose it? How did it happen and what are the consequences? What opens up on the other side- beyond the soul?
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
When people talk about music being 'soulful', they're not (I don't think) talking about the 'soul' in the religious or even philosophical sense.

I think what they mean is either that ts authentically emotional, or they're referring in particular to 'soul' music - which is harder to pin down. I think most often people use when it's clearly directly descended from soul music.

Also I feel like music that doesn't use either 'real' instruments or synths that sound like them isn't seen as soulful. So, yes - the opposite of mechanistic, manufactured. That's why you wouldn't describe either Carly Rae Jepsen or Autechre as soulful.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
If I started a thread and someone wrote what I’m about to write I’d be pissed off. Threads are much better when people don’t resoundingly disagree with the underlying premise, but explore it instead.

But to be a hypocrite, I don’t understand what you mean by pop music being anachronistic to soul? I thought it was soul in its purest form. What am I misunderstanding about your usage of the term?
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Don’t be disheartened, threads always have a bumpy beginning where everyone gets the wrong end of the stick and then they get good.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
You'll have to do it alone for now sorry I just started eork. Just sort of guess what I mean if you can.
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
Pop is polished, airbrushed, engineered to the last millimetre, emotions smoothed out. It's the polished metal covering the grinding inhuman gears. The inhuman gears are industrial techno.

Pop is also fundamentally adolescent or even pre-pubescent. It is about uncomplicated emotions - happy or frowny. Soul is about a complex mixture of happiness and frowniness.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Running with soul as ‘authenticity’ for a bit.

In the 60’s people believed in music having the ability to effect change; civil rights, Vietnam, etc.

Since then audience’ and artist’s scopes have increasingly reduced.

We’ve reached the point where some would argue that artists aren’t saying anything. Empty, tokenistic gestures to a handful of well worn topics; guns, sex, dancing, love and drugs.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
We’ve reached the point where some would argue that artists aren’t saying anything. Empty, tokenistic gestures to a handful of well worn topics; guns, sex, dancing, love and drugs.
I’d counter that by arguing the thematic narrowness forces artists to be more creative elsewhere. Migos sticking to very rigid subject matter has forced them to develop the biggest innovation in us rapping since rakim.

Bob dylan’s Lyric centrism has meant he can produce music completely devoid of any emotional resonance or sonic merit.

The best music of all time (jungle and post-72 mikes Davis) is by and large lyricless.
 

WebEschatology

Well-known member
I dont think their that innovative in all honesty,i can see how people latched onto their style of rapping but like Chief Keef i get in terms of innovation certain people are re-evaluating Juveniles stuff since he put out that Gucci Mane obviously but Migos ill be real i cant see it and think the stuff some people credit them for is shit that memphis dudes with more tools in their arsenal did 20 odd years ago


Weirdly i feel like Migos have alot in common with The LOX but they also strike as like answering the unasked question of "what if Das EFX had the spotlight a bit longer than they shouldve"
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
The welding of keef and migos’s style at the beggining of the decade has produced a rhythmic language unprecedented in rap.

It owes to three six, to lil jon, etc. But it definitely wasn’t attained by them
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
Please not another thread about migos :crylarf:

What IS of note is that innovation/futurism and soulfulness are somehow antithetical.
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
I mean maybe they're not irrelevant to the thread. They're definitely not - insofar as they're (From what i've heard) all about technique over content, with strictly artificial, cartoonish emotions.

Compare Future, e.g., who I think people WOULD describe as soulful, despite - or because of - the autotune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cDYYvOhKwg
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Corpsey, what about the relationship between the mask (not Jim Carey one) and soul. Is anonymity and role play the opposite of soul?

Faceless techno bollocks

Drill artists having no soul in a broader sense.

Then there’a Burial. Soulful. He’s anonymous, but his work is intimate and personal.

Is the soul the self? Futurism isn’t the self.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Which parts of the self? Hyper aggressive or sexual music is emotionally naked, yet not soulful.

Is soul about weekness and vulnerability?
 

Corpsey

call me big papa
'Soul' isn't a term you find much in literary criticism. You'd rarely see a novel or poem praised as 'soulful'. Perhaps because literature is (supposed to be) less emotionally direct than music.

Actually, I would expect to find the word 'soulless' in literary criticism.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Corpse will become a famous literary critic in his early 50’s, gaining notoriety for applying the paradigms of populist music journalism onto highbrow literature.

The inverse Reynolds
 
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