vimothy

yurp
thats just a random aside, idk what to make of it

in what sense does the "barbarian ideal" characterise communism? the barabarian ideal meaning a force from outside which attacks civilisation. communism arises from particular currents within civilisation (unlike, say, Islam) and aims to complete in some sense civilisation
 

vimothy

yurp
btw, I'm not totally blind to the appeal of the "barbarian ideal". I'm just disputing the extent to which this is characteristic of communism
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
I can far more easily imagine barbarism as embodiment of the fascist ideal. That makes a lot more sense to me.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
thats just a random aside, idk what to make of it

in what sense does the "barbarian ideal" characterise communism? the barabarian ideal meaning a force from outside which attacks civilisation. communism arises from particular currents within civilisation (unlike, say, Islam) and aims to complete in some sense civilisation

how is that? you've been reading too much US state propaganda on radical islamists, ok, maybe you haven't, but how on earth is islam an outside? the point is that civilisation subsumes everything. and has been doing so for centuries, even, in some senses, before capitalism. I mean you had ibn rushd writing about the civilised classes in the 13th century in Andalusian mercantile tributary society.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
I can far more easily imagine barbarism as embodiment of the fascist ideal. That makes a lot more sense to me.


fascism is vulgar aristocracy though, ultimately. the middle class can make it. we all see ourselves in the man of trials and tribulations.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I respect islamists


I don't. they are very boring and mundane and are creaking with existential angst, especially after their boss man Erdogan screwed up in Syria, something that will haunt them for decades (if not centuries) to come.
 

vimothy

yurp
point there is that islam predates capitalist civilisation, not to kick off an argument about whether religion is a precondition of civilisation
 

thirdform

Well-known member
point there is that islam predates capitalist civilisation, not to kick off an argument about whether religion is a precondition of civilisation

stop taking speed and systematise your points. christianity predates both islam and capitalist civilisation. yet capitalism is inarguably stamped with the dying skin of protestantism.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
apparently before the neolithic revolution (and the specialisation that resulted) group structures weren't particularly hierarchical. so if you were to define communism simply as egalitarian societies in which the means and rewards of production are equitably distributed then you could argue that the 'barbarian ideal' is compatible with communism.

however if communism is defined as a more complex body of thought and a historical phenomenon then obviously it is inherently tied to civilisation. how could it not be?

does that make everyone happy?
 

vimothy

yurp
stop taking speed and systematise your points. christianity predates both islam and capitalist civilisation. yet capitalism is inarguably stamped with the dying skin of protestantism.

I don't think I need to systematise what I'm saying it's pretty straight forward
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
vim's like when george galloway starts saying "salam alaikum" and all that and thinks it's cool while all the rest of us can see is a rotund scotsman doing cat sex on big brother.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I'm not an intellectual. intellectuals are like nme journalists. always late to the game. we knew about german classical philosophy, english classical economy and french socialism/matterialism long before some hotshot called marx systematised it. we were the original borg.
 
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