thirdform

Well-known member
like, many significant names in dance music who made some of the most out there dance music don't touch hard drugs or Class A's. Josh Wink and Dave Clarke are straight edge aswell as 4hero. Phuture were not into acid and Mills only ever smoked cigs or drank sometimes. Yet these people made some of the most psychedelic music ever.
 

chava

Well-known member
Good thread, but:

Hawtin never plays at Berghain, was even threwn out once.

Wolfgang Voigt and Berghain also don't mix well.

techno nerd signing off

You gotta transcend the positive/negative vibes dichotomy as well.
 

pattycakes_

Well-known member
You make this shit way more difficult than it need be man. Strawmanning all over the shop. Like, what's Sprinkles got to do with it? London is fucked. I left because of that. Too much superficial bullshit across the board. The UK is a sinking ship and has been for years. Only a very small few parties are worth going to in london for my own tastes. WU being one.

Are you seriously telling me you believe joy orbison had more of an effect than Ritchie? Mnus and mnml techno basically set the scene for endless clubs and a certain balearic Isle through the early 2000s until deep house came along in recent years. Out of the ibiza crowd who's more famous than him? Not many. Cox? Vath? He's easily in the top 5. But who do people style themselves after? Not Cox and not Vath.. And that shit was a loooong stretch man. Wtf did joy orbison do? Hyph mngo or whatever? Does anyone even know what he looks like? Fuck that. I'm finding it hard to believe you're doing anything but taking the piss here.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I mean that's what I'm working up to, where the machine music becomes the normal and the ricocheting bizzy b breakbeats circa 93 coil around patty's body. but often pure positivism means enslaving oneself to the classy and sophisticate ideal, a dystopia for those looking on from the outside, a highly exclusive and socially delineated utopia in fact.

Yes, Voigt doesn't play at Berghain.

You lot say this but once again I'll say even if you don't like the gas stuff his early 90s stuff is astoundingly innovative still.

I mean this is pure machine jack (call it funk if you must) so who cares if he mathematically breaks it down?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7zQX_kV-zE

and this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz6NhROwf5Q
 

thirdform

Well-known member
You make this shit way more difficult than it need be man. Strawmanning all over the shop. Like, what's Sprinkles got to do with it? London is fucked. I left because of that. Too much superficial bullshit across the board. The UK is a sinking ship and has been for years. Only a very small few parties are worth going to in london for my own tastes. WU being one.

Are you seriously telling me you believe joy orbison had more of an effect than Ritchie? Mnus and mnml techno basically set the scene for endless clubs and a certain balearic Isle through the early 2000s until deep house came along in recent years. Out of the ibiza crowd who's more famous than him? Not many. Cox? Vath? He's easily in the top 5. But who do people style themselves after? Not Cox and not Vath.. And that shit was a loooong stretch man. Wtf did joy orbison do? Hyph mngo or whatever? Does anyone even know what he looks like? Fuck that. I'm finding it hard to believe you're doing anything but taking the piss here.

yeah amazing. the international party circuit is your utopia so you can come and condescend to us about how superficial london is. it's you who is taking the piss here.

Yes, in the berlin techno/post-dubstep scene orbison is far far more relevant than Hawtin. But like I said, I don't believe that Richie Hawtin ruined clubbing, so I'm not arguing that for Orbison. read that post.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Like, what's Sprinkles got to do with it?

Oh, but you know Sprinkles has a lot to do for that demograpic in curatorial clubland who think techno is boring and conservative. they can't see that despite her academic revolutionary rhetoric her music suffers the same pitfalls as the techno they castigate.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
if u wanna be a house purist for that night, (again this is a hypothetical im not strawmanning you ffs) then be my guest but you'll hear louie vega rip offs on repeat. like a techno purist will hear mills/hood on repeat.

however what you can't deny is that the most out there names in house, traxx, hieroglyphic being, glenn underground in the past, funkineven etc have been supported by the less purist ends of the techno scene, and in fact when everyone was on all this shtick about cultural appropriation it was the uk wonky techno scene that continued to support ghettohouse and dance mania.

Most purisms are conservative, few are inward looking and forward tilted. jungle was forward tilted, as was the mover. but they were the exception.

this is like droid asking why people born after 1998 don't dance to roots reggae. I mean, think about that for a second and have a word with yourselves lads.
 
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thirdform

Well-known member
like your issue with me is i look at things from a more london urban perspective. ok. i do. it's superficial to you. fair enough guvner. but at least that's nearly 30 years of experience rather than just raving. like, raving is the least of it when i approach music. I do not see raving or any other musical activity as being a separate leisure sphere divorced from day-to-day activity.

if anything my love for dance music really crystalised outside the club. my greatest rush moments have been when i've discovered something alone or with friends and listened on repeat for hours. that doesn't mean I haven't had those moments in the club, i just .. don't prioritise them.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Almost immediately people were in isolated clumps in the corner, emitting dark vibes and casting shade out into the ether. Didn't like it one bit. This is my main problem with it and why I've never really been drawn to it in any way.

But this is exactly what this forum is about. like you go ranting at me, but this was exactly the same thing when piano hardcore turned into don't touch me weed/coke/snowball darkside, when garage turned into grime, etc etc.

here's what our man blissblogger says:

My darkside-theory epiphany occurred listening to pirate tapes in early 1993 while reading Deleuze & Guattari's A Thousand Plateaux. Suddenly I realized that this roiling bitches brew of mashed-up James Brownian motion and voodoo-bass was basically a guttersnipe version of Can's rhizomatic funk; that darkside was the black sheep bastard child of the avant-funk family tree that runs from Tago Mago through Eno/Byrne's Bush Of Ghosts to Skidoo/Cabs/Ratio/et al. Being avant-lumpen and fueled by bad drugs, darkside was simultaneously more primitive, more advanced, and more derangedly disturbing than any of its
art-house precursors. At the extreme, darkside was just a delirium tremens of convulsive breaks and insectile percussion, a queasy sub-bass drone-quake at the lower threshold of audibility that wobbled your intestines, some ghostly/ghastly sampladelic ectoplasm, plus an Nth-generation video-nasty soundbite. Tracks like Andy C's "Something New," Flex's "Ya Buzzin'" and Hype's "The Chopper" emitted the pulsating infernal infra-red glow of a muggy, murky, body-congested basement as the snowball kicks in and your sense-impressions get uncomfortably vivid. It was death-disco, for real--riddled with the su-E-cidal nihilism of a rave culture discovering that the Ecstasy experience can be literally mindblowing (as in a fuse burning out, rather than psychedelic transcendence) yet not being dissuaded, not at all--rather continuing the headlong heedless mission to the end of the night. That was the real revelation, the real reason that darkside is the most astounding, mind-and-ear-boggling music culture I've ever witnessed birth itself--that shift from plinky-piano-vamp-and-squeaky-diva happy-rave to samples about death, delirium, brain damage, psychosis. The fact that the dancefloors didn't empty, that people lapped it up, that any kind of intensity was better than feeling nothing, feeling numb. In hindsight, you can see the precursors in '90-91---the proto-dark vibe of Eon's "Inner Mind", "Spice", "Basket Case (White Coats Mix)"; hardcore's playful imagery of insanity; the edge-of-hysteria in Nightmares On Wax's "Aftermath" and Genaside II's "Narra Mine". But at the time, nothing prepared for the shock as the shadow fell.

Funnily enough I was at a party this last weekend and they were playing good vibes house all night. Got into a convo with a guy and I said I was really liking the music but they could go a bit darker and dirtier every now and then just for some contrast. The guy said he knew the organisers and had spoken with them about exactly that. They said that if they did that they'd only end up attracting the black clad Berghain types Who'd be banging ket all night. It really reminded me of my London raving experiences and I realised how fucking spot on it was because the vibes on the floor really were super positive all night.

well that's just projection isn't it. blame everything on ketamine rather than the cultural lineages of that crowd. it's classic house snobbery resurrected for 2019. heaven forbid someone challenge our berlin version of burning man.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
alright lol. clearly it's either patty, tea or version doing the nasty tags here. I've consulted everyone else. Tea, I rule out because he agreed with the initial premise of this thread. granted that isn't a strong case but benefit of the doubt.

Patty: if you have an issue with the way discussions work on here then raise it with the mods.

version: i don't think we have any beef so if its you what gives?

Weird week. should really put this behind us.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
That's not my style, third.

And believe it not I enjoy talking to you.

nah nah it's all good. just sometimes the way you right about soulfulness and spiritual positivity just comes across as extremely cringey to me in the extreme, like a whiteboy voyeuristically stroking his bass guitar and bongos. I'm not saying what you say is invalid it's more the kind of glancing out of one windowpain vibe. like i like a lot of 70s/80s funk/soul music, i mean if i didn't i'd be on like on a euro techno forum repping ebm (which really i have no time for.) I mean I'm listening to Soul II Soul as I drink my coffee and write this for christ's sake. It's more this jarring timeloop that you're harkening back to even a time before i can remember and its disconcerting because it's like, we fought to dismantle this attitude of white ppl = noisey black people = soulful. I just think (and i say this cordially) you can maybe pursue a bit more of a middle ground. noone is against soul here, we're just trying to work out how we respond to these things in 2010s london. it might be overly self-conscious and cynical and etc etc but its our reality. you have to kinda negotiate within that even if you don't like it, can't just keep repeating how awful it is can you. :)

and berlin is just as an unviting place for many. perhaps not you but that's fair enough.

https://phillewisblog.wordpress.com/2016/04/03/an-african-american-in-berlin/
 
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luka

Well-known member
Staff member
"When the one above departs from the Way
The ones below will lose sight of the tasks"
 
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